280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......?
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From: florida
280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......?
Hey, I thought I'd ask here cause you guys are the so called "WISE ONES"
hehe, ANyways, my friend has a 95 200SX. He has the stock 13" wheels on there and the thread is OKAY. We ran into a problem over the week and broke some studs off of his car. So now, he has 3LUGS on 3 wheels. One wheel has all 4, but 1 wheel only has 3 STUDS.... THink we'll be okay ? It's 140MILES THERE, 140 MILES BACK....Don't ask how the studs broke, it pisses me off everytime I talk about it...
hehe, ANyways, my friend has a 95 200SX. He has the stock 13" wheels on there and the thread is OKAY. We ran into a problem over the week and broke some studs off of his car. So now, he has 3LUGS on 3 wheels. One wheel has all 4, but 1 wheel only has 3 STUDS.... THink we'll be okay ? It's 140MILES THERE, 140 MILES BACK....Don't ask how the studs broke, it pisses me off everytime I talk about it...
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From: Reppin the I R V
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (QUICKTEG)
to me, but i drove around with only two lugs before and it was fine for a SHORT TIME only.[Modified by NWP4LIFE, 9:22 AM 11/15/2002]
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From: Saco, ME
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (QUICKTEG)
So, you think I'll be good for this lil trip?
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From: florida
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (sackdz)
Yes, but make sure you drive over 100mph so the wheels arn't under stress for too long of a time 
I forgot to mention...The car weighs 2300LBS. Me and the passenger are about 230 LBS and his sister is gonna be in the back of the car on the way back.....with the weight, what do you guys think?
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From: Hickory Hills, IL, USA
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (QUICKTEG)
On Monday my parents were driving home from Detroit and had the rear wheel of their van COMPLETELY break loose, all the lugs came off the drum. I drove up to Benton Harbor to go pick them up... and yeesh, I wish I would have taken pictures. According to my dad, he was driving along and feld a really bad rumble. So he pulled over, walked around with the flashlight checked everything out... Everything looked OK, so he gets back in and slowly starts speeding up to merge back with the highway when the shaking got even worse. So this time he gets out and looks with the flash light for a lot longer and saw that the rear tire only had 1 lugnut! They called AAA, and when the guy who towed them pulled the van up on to the flat bed the wheel completely broke off.
The tow truck driver brought them to a dealership in Michigan where they only charged him $95 to fix it! If you would have seen how messed up this **** was it would have blown your mind. Apparently it only took them like 10 minutes to fix...
The tow truck driver brought them to a dealership in Michigan where they only charged him $95 to fix it! If you would have seen how messed up this **** was it would have blown your mind. Apparently it only took them like 10 minutes to fix...
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From: Hickory Hills, IL, USA
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (io_burn)
Oh, also, they were pulling a small Wells Cargo trailer, so I'd say driving the car is a bad idea, and driving the car with a shitload of extra weight is a REALLY bad idea.
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From: Reppin the I R V
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (QUICKTEG)
dude, 3 studs is fine. I drove around with only 3 studs for like 6 months. They even let me drive it at the track, they said just fix before next time. Trust me man, you can drive there with 3 studs.
hehe. I was saved by the powers of rotation and gravity.
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (skafia)
if you find the proper math equations and stuff, you will find that 3 lugs that are poroperly on will produce WAY more than enough force to hold the wheels on, assumming everything else is in proper shape.
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From: florida
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (Stock R)
YEa, but 3 LUGS on 3Wheels, and one of those wheels has 3 STUDS...There is only 1 good wheels with all 4 studs and 4 LUGS....
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From: Tampa, FL
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (QUICKTEG)
lol I not only drove 5000 miles on 2-3 (unsure because one was frozen on, but may have been touching the wheel for most of the time) lugs and tracked it that way. eventually broke off one, so had two, but the one that was frozen wasn't touching the wheel, so really had one lug. 
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From: florida
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (Dave-ROR)
lol I not only drove 5000 miles on 2-3 (unsure because one was frozen on, but may have been touching the wheel for most of the time) lugs and tracked it that way. eventually broke off one, so had two, but the one that was frozen wasn't touching the wheel, so really had one lug.
LOL, I think well be fine...I don't know, **** it well just take another car...
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From: Orange County, CA
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (Stock R)
if you find the proper math equations and stuff, you will find that 3 lugs that are poroperly on will produce WAY more than enough force to hold the wheels on, assumming everything else is in proper shape.
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From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Re: 280 Mile Trip with 3-LUGS on each tire......? (skafia)
Someone posted this on HT a while ago.. I thought it was worth saving.
But when you think about it, it doesn't make sense that a
>hard plastic ring that can be popped in and out by hand
>would have any significant effect on the load bearing
>capabilities of the wheel/hub interface.
It doesn't. It simply aligns the wheel to the hub more precisely than the studs can. Then, once the lugs are tightened down, the friction between the wheel and the hub mating faces is what really carries the load. That's why you have to torque lug nuts so tightly- so the friction force is high.
This way, studs see mostly tension forces from torquing them down (and cornering), and the friction carries most of the bump and drive/brake torque load.
Example- (5) 7/16"-14 (.438") studs torqued to 75ft-lbs exert a total preload of 44,362lbs(!!). If the friction coefficient between the wheel and hub is 0.45 (steel-aluminum), then it will take a 20,000lb vertical load to overcome the frictional force enough to budge the wheel even slightly. Only then will the hubcentric ring and the shear strength of the studs come into effect. Considering the static loading on a rear wheel of your NSX is about 900lbs, that would be a 22g impact- and by that point you have bent rims
-------
and some more after I asked how he arrived at those numbers
-------
Hehe... OK, here's where I got my info:
Coefficient of Friction, steel on aluminum, static (0.45): Machinery's Handbook, 25th Edition (Industrial Press, Inc) p. 189
(note- p. 190, aluminum-aluminum, can vary from 0.30 to 1.30)
Fastener torque/preload values: I pulled them from a handy reference slide-rule chart. Holo-Krome Company, Lancaster PA, "Socket Screw Selector". I looked up a 7/16"-14 fastener (WAG- seemed about the same size as most studs I've dealt with) and then saw that if torqued to the recommended torque (1,190in-lbs = 100ft-lbs), each would give a preload of 11,830lbs. Scale that preload torque down to 75ft-lbs (common automotive
torque value for lug nuts), and each gives a preload of 8,873lbs. Multiply by 5 (NSX), and you get 44,360lbs preload. Multiply the preload times the coefficient of friction to get the total static friction "holding" force.
By the way, these studs would have a minimum tensile strength of 19,100lbs each- or 95,500lbs for the wheel. That's static; fatigue usually sets in and they will crack at a lower load eventually.
This is everyday steel- good stuff, eh?
Charts are good and simple. Easier than looking up the formula for preload as a function of diameter, pitch, stiffness of material, joint stiffness, lubrication, etc.
>hard plastic ring that can be popped in and out by hand
>would have any significant effect on the load bearing
>capabilities of the wheel/hub interface.
It doesn't. It simply aligns the wheel to the hub more precisely than the studs can. Then, once the lugs are tightened down, the friction between the wheel and the hub mating faces is what really carries the load. That's why you have to torque lug nuts so tightly- so the friction force is high.
This way, studs see mostly tension forces from torquing them down (and cornering), and the friction carries most of the bump and drive/brake torque load.
Example- (5) 7/16"-14 (.438") studs torqued to 75ft-lbs exert a total preload of 44,362lbs(!!). If the friction coefficient between the wheel and hub is 0.45 (steel-aluminum), then it will take a 20,000lb vertical load to overcome the frictional force enough to budge the wheel even slightly. Only then will the hubcentric ring and the shear strength of the studs come into effect. Considering the static loading on a rear wheel of your NSX is about 900lbs, that would be a 22g impact- and by that point you have bent rims
-------
and some more after I asked how he arrived at those numbers
-------
Hehe... OK, here's where I got my info:
Coefficient of Friction, steel on aluminum, static (0.45): Machinery's Handbook, 25th Edition (Industrial Press, Inc) p. 189
(note- p. 190, aluminum-aluminum, can vary from 0.30 to 1.30)
Fastener torque/preload values: I pulled them from a handy reference slide-rule chart. Holo-Krome Company, Lancaster PA, "Socket Screw Selector". I looked up a 7/16"-14 fastener (WAG- seemed about the same size as most studs I've dealt with) and then saw that if torqued to the recommended torque (1,190in-lbs = 100ft-lbs), each would give a preload of 11,830lbs. Scale that preload torque down to 75ft-lbs (common automotive
torque value for lug nuts), and each gives a preload of 8,873lbs. Multiply by 5 (NSX), and you get 44,360lbs preload. Multiply the preload times the coefficient of friction to get the total static friction "holding" force.
By the way, these studs would have a minimum tensile strength of 19,100lbs each- or 95,500lbs for the wheel. That's static; fatigue usually sets in and they will crack at a lower load eventually.
This is everyday steel- good stuff, eh?
Charts are good and simple. Easier than looking up the formula for preload as a function of diameter, pitch, stiffness of material, joint stiffness, lubrication, etc.
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