Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 12:25 PM
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Default Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Heidi ho, HT! Been progressively delving into honda's the past couple years, and due to finally making some real money thru real estate, I'm ready to tackle making my Integra the beaut that I want her to be.

I'll start off by saying I'm no mechanical expert, but I'm certainly not new to hondas. I swapped my first b18b into my eg early last year, then picked up my current dc2 over the summer. I tinkered w/ the suspension, nearly sued a mechanics shop, and finally decided to tackle all mechanical issues myself moving forward. Of course my timing belt snapped just a few weeks later, but nothing was damaged too bad, so I just threw some skunk2 valves in the head and called it a day. Once again, my teggy took a hit by having a lifted chevy make a u-turn in the middle of traffic, destroying my front end. Since then the car has just been sitting on my property, waiting for enough funds to accumulate before replacing the radiator support.

And that puts me here. Found a guy not too far away who has a good front end, along with fenders, bumper, and hood, who's willing to do all the work for $700. Which means I get to pull the engine and start working on the beating heart of my Acura. The current parts list are:
B18c1

Head:
Skunk2 Alpha Valves STD
Blox LMA
Skunk2 Pro Titanium Springs/Retainers

Block:
Stock
And basic bolt-ons all around.

My plans currently are wanting to have a kick-*** street car that I feel comfortable taking on extended drives, possibly a road trip or two. So basically over engineer everything. Money isn't an issue so I'm willing to pay top dollar to have an overbuilt motor. I've done lots of research around the honda community and wanted to run my final plans by the community before diving into purchases. For the block I want to go with Benson Racing #2 deal (again, I want bullet proof that will last for years). The head has been machined, 3 degree job etc, so I'm not sure if I should have anything else done in regards to having the head machined (that was a couple years ago). For the rest of the head everything skunk2 will be left alone, everything else will be replaced for skunk2 parts (pro 1 cams, cam gears, LMA, and valve stems).

For the turbo, I'm less certain. Boost is more foreign to me, so I'm not opposed to buying a kit that I just put together myself. From what I've heard, go-autoworks is a solid company with good kits. At a quick glance GO-AUTOWORKS A/C Pro Kit Civic Del Sol Integra D16 B16 B18 B20 LSVTEC this kit looks solid, but I'm not positive as to which turbo I should choose. I should mention I want the car to retain a/c, that way if the wife ever decides to ride along she can be comfy (I understand the issues with honda boost and a/c). We have a fairly good tuner here in GJ, but after I get used to the initial conservative tune I want to drive the car to denver and have PFI tune her. HP goals will be around 400 starting out, then after a few months take it up to 450 or 500.

Final thoughts, I don't want to cut any corners, regardless of costs. If I need to wait another month and save up the cash I'm willing to make that happen. Quality is my goal. I'm not set on things like compression, but from what I understand it's all about what the tuner is capable of, so possibly running a 10:1 comp, maybe 10.5:1? I'm super excited to start on this path now that funds will allow, but I also have every intention of doing this right, so I welcome as much feedback as I can get!

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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 12:48 PM
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Default re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
Heidi ho, HT! Been progressively delving into honda's the past couple years, and due to finally making some real money thru real estate, I'm ready to tackle making my Integra the beaut that I want her to be.

I'll start off by saying I'm no mechanical expert, but I'm certainly not new to hondas. I swapped my first b18b into my eg early last year, then picked up my current dc2 over the summer. I tinkered w/ the suspension, nearly sued a mechanics shop, and finally decided to tackle all mechanical issues myself moving forward. Of course my timing belt snapped just a few weeks later, but nothing was damaged too bad, so I just threw some skunk2 valves in the head and called it a day. Once again, my teggy took a hit by having a lifted chevy make a u-turn in the middle of traffic, destroying my front end. Since then the car has just been sitting on my property, waiting for enough funds to accumulate before replacing the radiator support.

And that puts me here. Found a guy not too far away who has a good front end, along with fenders, bumper, and hood, who's willing to do all the work for $700. Which means I get to pull the engine and start working on the beating heart of my Acura. The current parts list are:
B18c1

Head:
Skunk2 Alpha Valves STD
Blox LMA
Skunk2 Pro Titanium Springs/Retainers

Block:
Stock
And basic bolt-ons all around.

My plans currently are wanting to have a kick-*** street car that I feel comfortable taking on extended drives, possibly a road trip or two. So basically over engineer everything. Money isn't an issue so I'm willing to pay top dollar to have an overbuilt motor. I've done lots of research around the honda community and wanted to run my final plans by the community before diving into purchases. For the block I want to go with Benson Racing #2 deal (again, I want bullet proof that will last for years). The head has been machined, 3 degree job etc, so I'm not sure if I should have anything else done in regards to having the head machined (that was a couple years ago). For the rest of the head everything skunk2 will be left alone, everything else will be replaced for skunk2 parts (pro 1 cams, cam gears, LMA, and valve stems).

For the turbo, I'm less certain. Boost is more foreign to me, so I'm not opposed to buying a kit that I just put together myself. From what I've heard, go-autoworks is a solid company with good kits. At a quick glance GO-AUTOWORKS A/C Pro Kit Civic Del Sol Integra D16 B16 B18 B20 LSVTEC this kit looks solid, but I'm not positive as to which turbo I should choose. I should mention I want the car to retain a/c, that way if the wife ever decides to ride along she can be comfy (I understand the issues with honda boost and a/c). We have a fairly good tuner here in GJ, but after I get used to the initial conservative tune I want to drive the car to denver and have PFI tune her. HP goals will be around 400 starting out, then after a few months take it up to 450 or 500.

Final thoughts, I don't want to cut any corners, regardless of costs. If I need to wait another month and save up the cash I'm willing to make that happen. Quality is my goal. I'm not set on things like compression, but from what I understand it's all about what the tuner is capable of, so possibly running a 10:1 comp, maybe 10.5:1? I'm super excited to start on this path now that funds will allow, but I also have every intention of doing this right, so I welcome as much feedback as I can get!
Well it sounds like you have a good start by sleeving the block. I would run 10:1 compression if it were me, rods I would choose Manley Turbo Tuff rods which is way more than needed for 500whp BUT it is better to overbuild than underbuild. A block like that would be good to a 1000whp if you ever one day decided to go that route.

For the head I would go full Ferrea Valve Train, valves, springs, retainers, locks, guides. You can use the skunk2 LMA's and Pro 1's but those cams aren't really necessary for 500whp. Plus if you up the power in the future that is an easy upgrade, I would say a good set of ITR cams would be great. I ran those up to 700whp and the idle was great, never had an issue with idle and the Pro 1's either though so it's up to you.

I have thoughts on other items but as far as the block and head that is where I would go.
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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 01:01 PM
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Default re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC
Well it sounds like you have a good start by sleeving the block. I would run 10:1 compression if it were me, rods I would choose Manley Turbo Tuff rods which is way more than needed for 500whp BUT it is better to overbuild than underbuild. A block like that would be good to a 1000whp if you ever one day decided to go that route.

For the head I would go full Ferrea Valve Train, valves, springs, retainers, locks, guides. You can use the skunk2 LMA's and Pro 1's but those cams aren't really necessary for 500whp. Plus if you up the power in the future that is an easy upgrade, I would say a good set of ITR cams would be great. I ran those up to 700whp and the idle was great, never had an issue with idle and the Pro 1's either though so it's up to you.

I have thoughts on other items but as far as the block and head that is where I would go.
My original thoughts were to use itr cams, but I have a friend who has brand new in the box pro 1s he’d give me for $400. Hard to argue with that. Besides that I agree with everything else you said. Again, bulletproof build. What are your thoughts on the turbo setup? I’m planning on picking my tuners brain as well when that time comes.
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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 01:22 PM
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Default re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
My original thoughts were to use itr cams, but I have a friend who has brand new in the box pro 1s he’d give me for $400. Hard to argue with that. Besides that I agree with everything else you said. Again, bulletproof build. What are your thoughts on the turbo setup? I’m planning on picking my tuners brain as well when that time comes.
The 3076R should be excellent for you. I've got a 3476 on a D-series and love it. Should behave even better on a GSR.
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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 02:15 PM
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Default re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Txdragon
The 3076R should be excellent for you. I've got a 3476 on a D-series and love it. Should behave even better on a GSR.
Maybe this is getting off topic, but if you can explain to me the differences between turbos, specifically Garrett vs precision. The numbers are just designating the inlet/outlet sizes for different turbos, right?
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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 04:10 PM
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Default re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
Maybe this is getting off topic, but if you can explain to me the differences between turbos, specifically Garrett vs precision. The numbers are just designating the inlet/outlet sizes for different turbos, right?
here a link to explain how the different companies name their turbos. Not the greatest article but you’ll get the point

https://www.dragzine.com/news/turbo-...model-numbers/

now, asking what turbo would work for you is a bit of loaded question. The GT3076 would be a great turbo for your goals, only downside being if you’re looking to surpass the 500-550hp range that turbo will pretty much be tapped out. The GTX series could be an option depending on your wallet and new G-series looks promising but it’s also fairly new to the market so longevity is still in question and can go either way. They are also pretty pricey. As for precision I’m no overly familiar with them but to me it looks like you’d be looking into a 5858 or 5862? Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. Or maybe a BorgWarner S257SX-E? Again not too familiar with Borg (If you can’t tell I prefer Garrett)

My advice, do a bit of research and educate yourself a little more when it comes to turbos. It might make your decision easier for what you want out of your car.
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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 05:07 PM
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Default re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by piggy96
here a link to explain how the different companies name their turbos. Not the greatest article but you’ll get the point

https://www.dragzine.com/news/turbo-...model-numbers/

now, asking what turbo would work for you is a bit of loaded question. The GT3076 would be a great turbo for your goals, only downside being if you’re looking to surpass the 500-550hp range that turbo will pretty much be tapped out. The GTX series could be an option depending on your wallet and new G-series looks promising but it’s also fairly new to the market so longevity is still in question and can go either way. They are also pretty pricey. As for precision I’m no overly familiar with them but to me it looks like you’d be looking into a 5858 or 5862? Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. Or maybe a BorgWarner S257SX-E? Again not too familiar with Borg (If you can’t tell I prefer Garrett)

My advice, do a bit of research and educate yourself a little more when it comes to turbos. It might make your decision easier for what you want out of your car.
**** me, no wonder those numbers never made comparable sense. At least I have a basic understanding of it now, thnx for the link. From what you guys are saying the 3076 fits my needs perfectly. I’d like something that’s topping off around 550, that way when I’m just running 400hp I’m not waiting till dusk until I hit boost. And if I ever decide to go past 600, I can get a new turbo and know that my engine can easily handle it. I lean towards Garrett as well, seems like that’s the more popular choice. There’s just such an ocean of info out there, feels like you’re not really learning when you first dive in, you know?
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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
**** me, no wonder those numbers never made comparable sense. At least I have a basic understanding of it now, thnx for the link. From what you guys are saying the 3076 fits my needs perfectly. I’d like something that’s topping off around 550, that way when I’m just running 400hp I’m not waiting till dusk until I hit boost. And if I ever decide to go past 600, I can get a new turbo and know that my engine can easily handle it. I lean towards Garrett as well, seems like that’s the more popular choice. There’s just such an ocean of info out there, feels like you’re not really learning when you first dive in, you know?
Here is the Garrett GTW3476. This is the one I am running I mentioned a couple posts up. I love it! It should certainly handle the range you want and have room to grow. It's the JB and still really responsive. (I kinda want to swap now to the BB version. Lol!) I'm pushing it at 25psi and haven't officially dynoed yet but, I'd estimate I'm currently between 390 and 410whp and about 290-300wtq.

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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 06:37 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

There are LOTS of new Garrett choices in both journal bearing and ball-bearing configurations from both the Production Performance line of Garrett Motion's GT, GTX, and GTW families, in addition to the hybrids from several aftermarket companies. So, fortunately, and unfortunately, that means a lot more research and feedback based upon what information that you give to us, and how realistic your goals are to be. Wheel horsepower vs. Crank horsepower is going to be key. Purpose of the car is even more important. Make sure that you're understanding that you're not going to get both super-spool and higher end power without some sacrifice (and no, e-turbo isn't available yet), and look at both the turbine side and compressor sides of the map.

Turbos like boost pressure, but do have efficiency ranges.
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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 06:39 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

So I did a bit more research, specifically on the gt3076. Looks like I’m on the fence between it and the gt34. Main issue is that, more than likely, I’ll be running pump gas. 91 octane is the best we have in grand junction, the nearest e85 is over an hour drive away. Doable, but it would Ben a pain. Maybe I start on pump gas for the initial tune making 400, then switch to e85 once I take it to Denver? Thoughts?
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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
So I did a bit more research, specifically on the gt3076. Looks like I’m on the fence between it and the gt34. Main issue is that, more than likely, I’ll be running pump gas. 91 octane is the best we have in grand junction, the nearest e85 is over an hour drive away. Doable, but it would Ben a pain. Maybe I start on pump gas for the initial tune making 400, then switch to e85 once I take it to Denver? Thoughts?
Hmm. GT34? Try that one again for a model number. Trying to get the most power out of lower-knock resistant fuel means that you have to use a larger turbocharger possibly outside of its efficiency range, to make the higher power. If you want E85, you'd have to make a completely separate fuel/ignition map regardless. Your concern should be focused on about 280whp-300whp on 91oct fuel, but then have the ability to make close to your 500whp goal with more knock-resistant fuel (like E85 Sugar water). So, this means that you stay in the smaller midframed turbocharger sizes from about 51lbs/min-58lbs/min range.

Driving on E85 all the time really makes no sense to me for a daily driving experience, but that's only because of the fact that E85's BTUs are about 30% less than even 93 octane. But yes, you can switch over to E85 and retune, as long as the rest of the engine system can support it.
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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by TheShodan
Hmm. GT34? Try that one again for a model number..
I believe the OP is referring to the 3476.. GTW3476 or the GTW3076 as the possible options, 3476 being potentially better (?)
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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by TheShodan
Hmm. GT34? Try that one again for a model number. Trying to get the most power out of lower-knock resistant fuel means that you have to use a larger turbocharger possibly outside of its efficiency range, to make the higher power. If you want E85, you'd have to make a completely separate fuel/ignition map regardless. Your concern should be focused on about 280whp-300whp on 91oct fuel, but then have the ability to make close to your 500whp goal with more knock-resistant fuel (like E85 Sugar water). So, this means that you stay in the smaller midframed turbocharger sizes from about 51lbs/min-58lbs/min range.

Driving on E85 all the time really makes no sense to me for a daily driving experience, but that's only because of the fact that E85's BTUs are about 30% less than even 93 octane. But yes, you can switch over to E85 and retune, as long as the rest of the engine system can support it.
GTW3476, I was abbreviating. Found a forum that was super helpful, had a bunch of helpful numbers regarding the gt3076. Found one guy who was running 471hp on pump gas at 9.0:1 comp, but was bore'd to 83mm. So seems like my mind has been made up, unless there's any other avid opinions out there. I'll run the gt3076 and be happy with 400hp for a good long while (maybe a little less), and when I eventually want more boost I can have the turbo modified, maybe go with a .82 a/r housing. I feel like that should be doable, especially since I'll have a 10.0:1 or 10.5:1 comp. I also ought to talk to my tuner more, he will probably have a good idea of what is best/realistic.

Last edited by TheShodan; Jan 29, 2020 at 08:49 AM. Reason: You can't abbreviate Turbocharger nomenclature
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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Another quick question I've got... Having the block bored? Obviously it'll be sleeved so it could handle it, but is having the block bored even worth it? Seems to me like the impact on performance is relatively minimal.
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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
Another quick question I've got... Having the block bored? Obviously it'll be sleeved so it could handle it, but is having the block bored even worth it? Seems to me like the impact on performance is relatively minimal.
If you get sleeves just go with 84mm and call it a day, it will allow you room to overbore it, if something ever happens.
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Old Jan 28, 2020 | 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
GT3476, I was abbreviating. Found a forum that was super helpful, had a bunch of helpful numbers regarding the gt3076. Found one guy who was running 471hp on pump gas at 9.0:1 comp, but was bore'd to 83mm. So seems like my mind has been made up, unless there's any other avid opinions out there. I'll run the gt3076 and be happy with 400hp for a good long while (maybe a little less), and when I eventually want more boost I can have the turbo modified, maybe go with a .82 a/r housing. I feel like that should be doable, especially since I'll have a 10.0:1 or 10.5:1 comp. I also ought to talk to my tuner more, he will probably have a good idea of what is best/realistic.
the reason he made that power on pump gas is he has low compression. It’s called dynamic compression. And it takes into count for altitude compression and boost levels. That’s why people at 5000ft can have a 12:1 engine and run boost with it cause the altitude drops the engines dynamic compression down due to the thin air. So there’s something to think about also fuels have there knock limits and that’s more off the dynamic compression so a 9:1 engine and 20psi is the same as say a 10.5:1 engine and 15psi. So I’d highly consult your tunner especially if it’s going to be Brett owner of pfi speed he will give you what would be best in your area.
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Old Jan 29, 2020 | 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
My original thoughts were to use itr cams, but I have a friend who has brand new in the box pro 1s he’d give me for $400. Hard to argue with that. Besides that I agree with everything else you said. Again, bulletproof build. What are your thoughts on the turbo setup? I’m planning on picking my tuners brain as well when that time comes.
Save your money and put it towards an MFactory LSD.
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Old Jan 29, 2020 | 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by DaX
Save your money and put it towards an MFactory LSD.
Co-Sign. Also, it's best not to "abbreviate" turbocharger nomenclature. You'll just confuse yourself and everyone else.
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Old Jan 29, 2020 | 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by DaX
Save your money and put it towards an MFactory LSD.
LSD is another big thing I'll be wanting to get, as well as an ls 5th gear. It personally drives me nuts when I'm trying to cruise on the interstate and pop in and out of vtec. If I want the vtec, I'll drop a gear, if not, LET ME CRUISE IN PEACE! >.<
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Old Mar 9, 2020 | 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Been awhile since my last post, but I've got some updates for everyone. The integra is currently gone, off getting the front end replaced. Block has been fully disassembled, and after talking to people in town I'm not going to have the block sleeved. Instead, I'm sending it to CSS for sleeve support, and that ought to be enough (especially if I never break the 500hp barrier). Block will be bored over to 81.5, nothing crazy. I'll be shipping the block off this weekend, as well as ordering all the internal components for both the block and the head. Hopefully I will have the head fully built before I receive the bottom end back. I've got a buddy who's been working on honda's for years, and he's gonna help me put the bottom end together to make sure I don't do anything stupid. I'll throw up a few pictures this weekend after I send everything off.
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Old Mar 9, 2020 | 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Toat13's Waking Up My 400hp Integra Dreams

Originally Posted by Toat13
Been awhile since my last post, but I've got some updates for everyone. The integra is currently gone, off getting the front end replaced. Block has been fully disassembled, and after talking to people in town I'm not going to have the block sleeved. Instead, I'm sending it to CSS for sleeve support, and that ought to be enough (especially if I never break the 500hp barrier). Block will be bored over to 81.5, nothing crazy. I'll be shipping the block off this weekend, as well as ordering all the internal components for both the block and the head. Hopefully I will have the head fully built before I receive the bottom end back. I've got a buddy who's been working on honda's for years, and he's gonna help me put the bottom end together to make sure I don't do anything stupid. I'll throw up a few pictures this weekend after I send everything off.
sweet, 500whp is no problem if your doing a proper CSS by CNC Werx. I’ve done everything your about to do, so feel free to ask questions
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