Head gasket job - what else needs replacing during it?
I had a 2000 Honda Civic DX (D16Y7) handed down to me from a family member. It sat in their garage/parking lot for a couple years and was heavily rusted underneath. My sibling initially drove it flawlessly after some work was done on it for around a year before giving it to me, and I had no issues for around another year. There was an instant of it over heating in the summer last year for a minute before I pulled it over and let it sit for ~30 minutes, but it didn't overheat after that (I'm pretty vigilant with the temp gauge). I've driven it for over year (long journeys too) after that overheating episode, and never had issues until my fuel line started leaking. The radiator fan definitely works (I followed this trick see first video - www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMRzosjehRk), but I don't think it ever turns on so I might have to replace the temperature sensor. Q1: What else could cause the radiator fan to never to turn on besides a bad temperature sensor?
So I've recently replaced fuel lines/brake lines to fix it since they started leaking. After starting her up while she sat idle for a couple weeks, the engine had a rough idle and a bunch of what looked like white smoke was coming out. FML when you finish one job and another issue instantly pops up. I would say at first start it was pretty bad smelling, but then it tempered off and might've been sweet. Initially thought head gasket. It looked like I lost some coolant since I last checked (a few months ago). Oil cap looked fine and saw nothing milky, and the dipstick was at its proper level and not milky. My thoughts are I'm leaking coolant.
I did a dry/wet compression test (5 cranks, about 1-2 tsp of oil for wet), numbers from cylinder 1 to 4 read:
Dry: 175, 168, 184, 176
Wet: 198, 189, 200, 188
I checked cylinder 2 again twice for dry and it read around 180. I haven't performed a leak down test but it still looks like a blown head gasket even with no compression loss. Q2: Can you have a blown head gasket with numbers like these? The check engine light came on just as I had to leave the garage (will scan once I get back to the burbs). Since it's getting cold in Chicago and there's no heater in the parent's garage (lol), I'm thinking of doing the job anyways ASAP. She requires a lot of other work but I honestly don't want to spend any money on other parts if she still smokes/idles rough after a head gasket replacement.
Main Q: What else needs to be replaced (other gaskets mainly) during a head gasket? I do not want to pour money down the drain if the old gasket has no visible damage and if the head is within specs since I plan on using a feeler gauge/straight edge to check for warpage above .004". I've read a bunch of threads and watched videos, and it looks like you can get away with reusing everything (including head bolts) besides the head gasket and maybe the intake manifold gasket/exhaust manifold gasket. I plan on using this dude's stick play (youtu.be/-qUw5Vm-tnQ?t=745) to avoid taking off the timing belt and for a quicker replacement (Q3: I've seen a couple videos of people doing this, any concerns?). If the block is messed up then I'm probably junking it. I'll plan on getting the head milled if the warpage is bad (might get it milled anways to nil if it's possible...). If I find clear evidence the head gasket was messed up and/or head is warped above .004", I'll replace more items. However if everything looks good, I don't care about replacing other items until I know I fixed the main problem.
Would appreciate insight before I tackle the project. I plan on reusing head bolts and buying a fel-pro head gasket, fel-pro intake manifold gasket, and maybe a fel-pro exhaust manifold gasket. Potentially will replace thermostat/temperature sensor as well as other items I can get a hold of the day of if I know for certain head gasket was causing the issue.
So I've recently replaced fuel lines/brake lines to fix it since they started leaking. After starting her up while she sat idle for a couple weeks, the engine had a rough idle and a bunch of what looked like white smoke was coming out. FML when you finish one job and another issue instantly pops up. I would say at first start it was pretty bad smelling, but then it tempered off and might've been sweet. Initially thought head gasket. It looked like I lost some coolant since I last checked (a few months ago). Oil cap looked fine and saw nothing milky, and the dipstick was at its proper level and not milky. My thoughts are I'm leaking coolant.
I did a dry/wet compression test (5 cranks, about 1-2 tsp of oil for wet), numbers from cylinder 1 to 4 read:
Dry: 175, 168, 184, 176
Wet: 198, 189, 200, 188
I checked cylinder 2 again twice for dry and it read around 180. I haven't performed a leak down test but it still looks like a blown head gasket even with no compression loss. Q2: Can you have a blown head gasket with numbers like these? The check engine light came on just as I had to leave the garage (will scan once I get back to the burbs). Since it's getting cold in Chicago and there's no heater in the parent's garage (lol), I'm thinking of doing the job anyways ASAP. She requires a lot of other work but I honestly don't want to spend any money on other parts if she still smokes/idles rough after a head gasket replacement.
Main Q: What else needs to be replaced (other gaskets mainly) during a head gasket? I do not want to pour money down the drain if the old gasket has no visible damage and if the head is within specs since I plan on using a feeler gauge/straight edge to check for warpage above .004". I've read a bunch of threads and watched videos, and it looks like you can get away with reusing everything (including head bolts) besides the head gasket and maybe the intake manifold gasket/exhaust manifold gasket. I plan on using this dude's stick play (youtu.be/-qUw5Vm-tnQ?t=745) to avoid taking off the timing belt and for a quicker replacement (Q3: I've seen a couple videos of people doing this, any concerns?). If the block is messed up then I'm probably junking it. I'll plan on getting the head milled if the warpage is bad (might get it milled anways to nil if it's possible...). If I find clear evidence the head gasket was messed up and/or head is warped above .004", I'll replace more items. However if everything looks good, I don't care about replacing other items until I know I fixed the main problem.
Would appreciate insight before I tackle the project. I plan on reusing head bolts and buying a fel-pro head gasket, fel-pro intake manifold gasket, and maybe a fel-pro exhaust manifold gasket. Potentially will replace thermostat/temperature sensor as well as other items I can get a hold of the day of if I know for certain head gasket was causing the issue.
Last edited by xprest1ge; Oct 15, 2019 at 09:48 PM. Reason: YouTube videos in middle of post
it's good practice to replace the valve cover gasket (set) when you do a head gasket. this usually comes with a "top end rebuild" gasket set. and unless it's been recently replaced, the distributor o-ring would be a good idea to replace.
check the condition of the coolant hoses. if they need to be replaced, it can be easier to get to some of them with the head off.
check the condition of the coolant hoses. if they need to be replaced, it can be easier to get to some of them with the head off.
Any idea why the pistons would show valve marks? How bad does this look? I saw some civic videos and I think at least a couple showed valve marks but no one paid any attention to it.
Another question - I had my head cleaned, resurfaced, and pressure checked. When it came back the camshaft was in a different alignment than top dead center for cylinder 1. I ended up rotating it by placing a rag over the end the wheel is normally on, used vice grips, and spun it to alignment with top dead center. The machine shop said to make sure you put the timing belt on correctly and spin the cam to check if the valves will break.
Is there anything noticeable that I should be looking for? It spun as it did before. There were some moments where it was really easy to spin, some that were a little tougher, but this matched exactly how it was before. I did hear a slight whining noise when it was a bit tougher to spin, but nothing was locking up.
Also, is it possible to put the distributor on the wrong way? The distributor open fittings in the head were on top and the bottom. I wasn't able to put the distributor on one way, had to spin the fittings 180 degrees, and then it went in smoothly. It was odd given the fittings look uniform but maybe that isn't the case?
Its tough to spin sometimes because your the cams are pushing on the rocker arms which pushes the valves down. The valve springs have some strength to it. Have you googled an image of the p2e pistons?
No I did not, had no idea what to google besides 'valve marks' and 'valve kissing'! Appreciate the response, I feel better about the condition of the head and pistons then.
Would a head gasket turn up a P0505 code? That was the code I got right before I started replacing everything. I did some research and never saw a P0505 and smoke from the exhaust so I went ahead with the repair. Could a rough idle due to a blown head gasket or valve stem seal leak trip a P0505 due to the rough idle?
The machine shop said there was no leak in the cylinder head, but mentioned four of the intakes in cylinders 3 & 4 were leaking fast. I'm kind out of my element on this one - what does this mean and how do I remedy it?
Would a head gasket turn up a P0505 code? That was the code I got right before I started replacing everything. I did some research and never saw a P0505 and smoke from the exhaust so I went ahead with the repair. Could a rough idle due to a blown head gasket or valve stem seal leak trip a P0505 due to the rough idle?
The machine shop said there was no leak in the cylinder head, but mentioned four of the intakes in cylinders 3 & 4 were leaking fast. I'm kind out of my element on this one - what does this mean and how do I remedy it?
No I did not, had no idea what to google besides 'valve marks' and 'valve kissing'! Appreciate the response, I feel better about the condition of the head and pistons then.
Would a head gasket turn up a P0505 code? That was the code I got right before I started replacing everything. I did some research and never saw a P0505 and smoke from the exhaust so I went ahead with the repair. Could a rough idle due to a blown head gasket or valve stem seal leak trip a P0505 due to the rough idle?
The machine shop said there was no leak in the cylinder head, but mentioned four of the intakes in cylinders 3 & 4 were leaking fast. I'm kind out of my element on this one - what does this mean and how do I remedy it?
Would a head gasket turn up a P0505 code? That was the code I got right before I started replacing everything. I did some research and never saw a P0505 and smoke from the exhaust so I went ahead with the repair. Could a rough idle due to a blown head gasket or valve stem seal leak trip a P0505 due to the rough idle?
The machine shop said there was no leak in the cylinder head, but mentioned four of the intakes in cylinders 3 & 4 were leaking fast. I'm kind out of my element on this one - what does this mean and how do I remedy it?
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Overall crossing my fingers that replacing the head gasket, a valve job, replacing valve stem seals, replacing all the other gaskets, will make at least the smoke disappear.
I'll be cleaning the IACV with some brake cleaner tomorrow as well since it's not too difficult to get to right now. Hopefully that fixes the surging idle.
Symptoms were that I started the car and it would smoke some exhaust, and after a few minutes would begin idling from low to high in succession.
Symptoms were that I started the car and it would smoke some exhaust, and after a few minutes would begin idling from low to high in succession.
I believe I'm leaking coolant after the head gasket job... did everything by the book. I'm thinking my torque wrench sucks (harbor freight) and might not have been calibrated properly? Even if it is correct, is it a bad idea to over torque to something like 52-54 ft-lbs to see if it fixes the problem?
My compression test yielded around 5-8 PSI less for both dry/wet.
My compression test yielded around 5-8 PSI less for both dry/wet.
Harbor Freight tools I've heard are nothing but cheap garbage.
Did you torque wrench come with a calibration certificate? And how old, much use has it had?
Did you torque wrench come with a calibration certificate? And how old, much use has it had?
grab one of these, you can use it to calibrate less accurate torque wrenches.
i was really over torquing things before i bought it lol.
i was really over torquing things before i bought it lol.
If it were me, I'd do the following since the head has to come off:
Bonus Objectives Since Half the Motor is Apart:
It's better to do it all at once, then to have to tear into her later.
- Head-Gasket
- Timing Belt
- Valve Seals
- Valve Stem Guides
- Valve Lapping
- Valve Adjustment
- Valve Cover Gasket Kit
- Fuel Injector O-Ring Kit
- Distributor O-Ring
- Camshaft Seal
Bonus Objectives Since Half the Motor is Apart:
- Water Pump
- Oil Pump
- Front Main Seal
It's better to do it all at once, then to have to tear into her later.
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