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i am building a 1993 Honda Accord EX wagon. i got it with blown engine and trans in it. i have just installed 2.2 litre F22A6 but not sure which automatic transmission is correct or best for that engine. APX4?, MPXA?, or other?. is any H4A okay? i want to get the most out of the A6 engine.
grateful for any help and information. thanks
I'd say the MPXA or MPWA because they were original equipment in the '93 Accord, or one of em was, can't seem to find a definite answer, so your less likely to have compatibility issues.
From what I've read, any automatic from '90-'97 will work with the engine, so that includes the H4, H4A, APX4, MPXA & others.
You'll need an automatic transmission harness and tcu, both matching to the trans so I'd just go with what you have or it should have.
The only other thing that I would influence my decision would be possibly gearing (hard info to find) or known problems with certain transmissions, that and advice from anyone who has had any experience on the matter, which I'm sorry to say I don't.
thanks, Accordian47 and Fitz Williams. good info and also great link with lots of info. i talked to Honda tech at dealer near me. according to my vin, he says my wagon came originally with F22A6 and the APX4 automatic. when i asked him if i can use an MPXA or other, he said, "no...but maybe." i think it is something about the gearing and the shift points. the problem now is that i cant find a used APX4 anywhere. i checked the wrecking yards and i find nothing but MPXA's everywhere. even tho it's the "wrong" trans, it will bolt up and work...just not correctly. looks like im gonna have to purchase/install the MPXA and it's TCU, at least for now. a little bummed out about it but dont know what else to do.
The only thing to watch out for is the difference in gearing. Chances are, because you car is a wagon, the APX4 gearing is a little lower than the MPXA. It would make you wagon feel a little sluggish. That may or may not be a problem for you.
The only thing to watch out for is the difference in gearing. Chances are, because you car is a wagon, the APX4 gearing is a little lower than the MPXA. It would make you wagon feel a little sluggish. That may or may not be a problem for you.
Fitz Williams, i'm liking your idea. would like the lower gearing. not into sluggish. i see that MPJA is still an H4A built for 2.2 liter from '95 to '97. i'm going to call around the wrecking yards for that trans/tcu today. will the MPJA match up and plug right into my '93 Accord engine bay/automatic trans harness? will i have to do any splicing or any "custom" work to make it fit?
will the MPJA match up and plug right into my '93 Accord engine bay/automatic trans harness?
If it is the same looking sensor pigtail and all, visually, then it will most likely work. 98-02 JDM transmissions have the different connectors, which doesn't affect you.
Use your Accords trans mount and bracket, they can be slightly different on later models.
Use your Accords VSS. Later Accords and Ody do not have the pigtail that the 90-93 cars have on the VSS.
Transfer your Accords TV cable bracket to the Ody trans. Air intake is slightly different so that bracket on top of the trans is also different.
Transfer any brackets from your Accord trans to the Ody trans.
You will need the driveplate(flexplate) off the Ody to match the Ody TC. There are at least two, if not three, different TC diameters. Accords tend to have a smaller TC diameter. Driveplate and TC need to match.
Bonus.
If you do get an ODY trans from a yard, you may want to look into using the Ody jackshaft as well. This will allow you to use a shorter MT CV axle assembly on the left side. This will reduce torque steer from the longer axle that AT cars have. Torque steer occurs due to the longer axle acting as a torsion bar(spring). If you have ever had the wheel turned left/right and apply a bit excess power without tire spin, depending on which way you are turning, the steering will either snap back violently to center or not return to center and stay turned.
As for the MPJA gearing, I enjoy it in the 95 EX coupe and the 97 EX sedan. With the coupe it is far easier to accelerate on the freeway from 70-90 when you need to pass without all the drama of the downshift. In the sedan you don't feel the weight as much when loaded up.
Downside is 4th gear is a bit short and your rpms will be 3K@70MPH and 4K@80MPH. With a B1 it's great as that gets it into the meat of the powerband, not so great as you can be buzzing the engine a bit just to keep up with traffic around here, 80MPH is the norm on '65MPH' highways.
that's good info, Mad Mike. thank you. having trouble with "F/H Transaxle ratios" and "Trans gear graph" links. keep showing a 5th gear ratio. after researching a bit, it seems the MPJA has 4th gear rpm closer to a F22B Prelude si (while in 5th gear) but the MPJA is still higher by about 500 rpm (while in 4th). that's about about 800-1000 rpm higher @ 70-80 mph than the MPXA 4th gear. according to "F/H Transaxle ratios", '90-'93 Accord EX sedan F22B should be roughly around 2806 rpm @ 70 mph and 3207 rpm @ 80mph. i'm not sure for '93 Accord EX wagon. havent been able to find out what 4th gear rpm would have been with the original APX4 to compare to MPJA. this wagon will be used a lot on the freeway for long distance drives. i have found both MPJA and MPXA at wrecking yards but now im not sure what direction to go.
thanks, Accordian47 and Fitz Williams. good info and also great link with lots of info. i talked to Honda tech at dealer near me. according to my vin, he says my wagon came originally with F22A6 and the APX4 automatic. when i asked him if i can use an MPXA or other, he said, "no...but maybe." i think it is something about the gearing and the shift points. the problem now is that i cant find a used APX4 anywhere. i checked the wrecking yards and i find nothing but MPXA's everywhere. even tho it's the "wrong" trans, it will bolt up and work...just not correctly. looks like im gonna have to purchase/install the MPXA and it's TCU, at least for now. a little bummed out about it but dont know what else to do.
It'd be one thing if you had a motor and car that came with the H4 and so had an engine harness for such a motor/trans and THEN were trying to use a NEWER model trans. H4 is only a twin shaft transmission and the MPXA's and APX4's are a tripple shaft so the engine harness is going to have to have another shaft speed sensor pigtail at least, if not more.
With what your doing, you shouldn't have a problem running either a APX4, MPJA or MPXA trans, its just a matter of what the F22A6 engine harness has for trans connectors or how they match up. Finding a "list" of all the connectors required for each of these H4A transmissions isn't easy. I'd do your best to choose a trans, buy it, and just go at it, start looking it over, checking to see what sensors/solenoids it has and start matching up your F22A6 engine harness, only one way to tell if its gonna fit.
The MPXA came only in the 1991 Accords, it would fit your car but I wouldn't go for a trans from 2 years earlier for any reason. It's bound to have the same gearing as the original APX4.
I'm sure you know but just as a general rule, really big cars with little needed demand for performance, like the Odyssey, will have lower gearing. Lower trim levels like the LX and DX can have lower gearing sometimes from say an EX and bigger than compact cars (especially luxury models) will have higher gearing.
I know it is very difficult to find any good info on the web about the details of these automatic transmissions, your lucky if you can find the part code # yet alone gear ratios or what cars they came in.
Last edited by Accordian47; Sep 25, 2019 at 01:12 PM.
Reason: Removed MPWA suggestion from Vigor, longetudinal vs. transverse mounting, duh...lol
I cannot find ANY info on gear ratios for the 1993 Accord Wagon Automatic (APX4). Or any gear ratio for ANY automatics for that matter, I even checked the original Honda owners manual under specifications and they don't list them. I've tried some of these auto sites that do features or list all the specifications but mainly all 5spd. This is comming down to a hunt on the internet for specifications and gear ratio info. You know most any of the H4A transmissions will work but it's a matter of what engine harness and tcu you will need and choosing a transmission with gear ratios best suited to your needs. If you knew all the gear ratios, you could decide and get on obtaining one and getting the freakin thing in there!
It'd be one thing if you had a motor and car that came with the H4 and so had an engine harness for such a motor/trans and THEN were trying to use a NEWER model trans. H4 is only a twin shaft transmission and the MPXA's and APX4's are a tripple shaft so the engine harness is going to have to have another shaft speed sensor pigtail at least, if not more.
With what your doing, you shouldn't have a problem running either a APX4, MPJA or MPXA trans, its just a matter of what the F22A6 engine harness has for trans connectors or how they match up. Finding a "list" of all the connectors required for each of these H4A transmissions isn't easy. I'd do your best to choose a trans, buy it, and just go at it, start looking it over, checking to see what sensors/solenoids it has and start matching up your F22A6 engine harness, only one way to tell if its gonna fit.
If it came with a APX4, you can't find a used one and want higher gearing for the highway then I would consider the MPWA. It came in the 1992-1994 Acura Vigor, being a Acura and a bigger luxury style car, it may have the higher gearing your looking for. I would of course do your best to confirm that before you decide however.
The MPXA came only in the 1991 Accords, it would fit your car but I wouldn't go for a trans from 2 years earlier for any reason. It's bound to have the same gearing as the original APX4.
I'm sure you know but just as a general rule, really big cars with little needed demand for performance, like the Odyssey, will have lower gearing. Lower trim levels like the LX and DX can have lower gearing sometimes from say an EX and bigger than compact cars (especially luxury models) will have higher gearing.
I know it is very difficult to find any good info on the web about the details of these automatic transmissions, your lucky if you can find the part code # yet alone gear ratios or what cars they came in.
thanks, Accordian47. i'm finding MPXAs in '92s and '93s also. this '93 Accord EX wagon is a heavier car than coupe/sedan. originally came with APX4 because it has lower gearing than MPXAs that came in coupes and sedans. cant find APX4 info on the exact gearing and so i cant compare to the low gearing in the MPJA found in the Odyssey. i'm guessing they had similar low gears in 1st thru 3rd gear but curious about 4th gear in the APX4. i'm going to call Honda dealer tech and see if he can enlighten me.
Honda tech cant help. says he has no access to gearing info. just dont want to be revving 500+ rpm in 4th gear over original transmission. guess i have to choose between sluggish in 1st and 2nd gear or over-revving in 4th gear.
The various gear ratios are in the FSMs for each model. If you can locate the FSM for each model online
Wagon has same gear ratios as coupe/sedan but has a lower final drive. Confusion occurs because the 90-93 and 94-97 have two different gear ratio and final drives, but equal about the same in the end. Even though there are probably a dozen trans codes if not more BAXA, MAXA, BOYA, AOYA, etc etc. Idicative of slight internal differences.
Ody has lower gear ratios, but this is because its a van and it uses a taller diameter tire as well 205/65R15(25.5") vs 195/60R15(24.2") on the Accord. So revs in the Ody are not an issue.
Prelude has the MP1A or the more desirable LSD equipped MP1A-1 for the different models. The various supplements for the sub models will contain the gear ratio information but don't get too hung up looking for an elusive holy grail transmission that has it all.
Through some very great connections...I have found it!
Your 1993 Accord Wagon EX came factory with a F22A6 and the "APX4" 4-Speed Automatic which is a variant of the H4A family.
The 1995 Odyssey came factory with a F22B6 and the "MPJA" 4-Speed Automatic which is also a variant of the H4A family.
Here are the ratios for the two as well as some speed and RPM calculations along with oem size tire specs for both cars.
So the Odyssey's MPJA has a lower final drive and a slightly lower 1st through 3rd. All in all you'll be taching a whole 80 RPM higher @ 55mph in 4th. You'll gain some low speed torque with the shorter gearing, should be just the touch your looking for to gain some low end moving power for the heavier car. Fuel economy should be a hardly noticeable change. I wonder how the shift logic in the tcu works as far as shift points and how they may differ from the APX4, theres another thing to look forward too.
Shift logic is fine.
Don't play around with the TCUs, they are pretty engine/vehicle specific.
Mostly they will be tuned for shift points around the engines power curves. Withe the lower gear ratios of the ODY this will make the engines life easier and it will, under light throttle, upshift quicker. I used to have to coax the throttle to get BOYA to upshift under really light throttle. With the MPJA(since load is lessened via gearing) the trans(or TCU to be precise) is much more willing to allow the trans to upshift. I can usually get it to upshift to 4th gear really easy during cruise ~25MPH. Which is nice when just putt-putting down a road.
Unless you are swapping engine/trans together such as a H23/MP1A, then I would use the H23 ECU/TCU combo. If just trans, stick with the original vehicles TCU not the TCU from the Ody.
Mixed driving with the Coupe I get 29MPG. I think mixed before was closer to 27MPG driving the same way, but there seemed to be much mroe downshifting just to get the car to go. Biggest difference is definitely freeway cruising/passing. Just roll into the throttle and the car goes. Before it was either you were a bit too slow and had to downshift, which was dramatic, or just waited for the engine to get into its powerband and finally start to increase speed.
TL:DR
Originally Posted by Fitz Williams
The MPJA from a 95-97 Odyssey makes a nice swap with some low gearing. I like mine.
Mine seems to downshift from 4th to 2nd a little too easily when I apply the throttle. The lower gear is just not necessary, but it shifts anyway (it would be necessary if I still had the Accord trans.) So I have a few TCU's which I plan to try just to see if it improves the drive ability some. They are all from various iterations of the Prelude.
"Deeb" where'd you go? I did all kinds of research and work there, you see it? I got the gear ratios and rpms/speeds all mapped out in tables, c'mon yo! lol
Mad Mike, Accordian47, Fitz Williams... got some old injuries that like to act up sometimes. been down for a while. you guys are badass and have kicked out great info! it turns out that the wrecking yard that said they had the MPJA, didnt when i got there. havent been able to find that trans any where close enough that i could bother a friend for ride to go pull it. friends are tired of me not having a running vehicle cuz im trying to get the trans i want. it bummed me out but after all this research and sharing of info, i had to settle for an MPXA. i have already installed it. all but passenger side axle, ecu (car came with wrong ecu) and tcu (also wrong), center console, passenger seat and some DW-1. i'll be doing this today. hoping this wrecking yard transmission works well for me. i'm grateful to you all for such good input/info. i'm new member of honda-tech.com but have been coming here for years. always working on mine and friends civics, accords and even acuras. i'll will let you know how this wagon works out. i'll be back
car is up and running. had to replace vehicle speed sensor to remove replacement transmission and engine error codes. wagon takes off from stop okay. not quick off the line. gets better as rpms climb. removed old incorrect TCU and replaced with one from same car as replacement transmission. changed incorrect ECU with $15 used ECU from ebay. F22A6 8-port intake working properly now. very cool. tach is reading just under 3000 rpm @ 70mph in 4th gear. feels like it should be revving higher at 70. will definitely need to downshift for passing. can tell this car is going to be good on gas while freeway traveling. havent tried yet (and probably not going to) but i bet this thing will do way over 100+ without strain. not super happy with this MPXA gearing wise but glad to have it driving. i will keep looking for APX4 and MPJA. seems like that's the way to go. i got rid of ECU error code 1 (O2 sensor) by replacing it but used a cheap new one and quickly threw a ECU error code 43 (fuel system). just ordered a Denso O2 sensor to replace the cheap new one. only mentioned that cuz may be running richer cuz of error. might affect how car is pulling from a dead stop? not sure
Accordian47, dont know why but none of the tire spec/gear ratio/rpm photo/links you posted the past couple times have been opening. i would like to check them out but nothing is there.
which 4-speed automatic for F22A6?
