Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

B20B running rich

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Old Aug 6, 2019 | 03:51 AM
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Default B20B running rich

So short story here, I recently bought an EG hatch with a B20B swap already done. The car was originally had a turbo set up on it which the previous owner of 6 years took off. He swapped to a factory P75 ECU and everything back over to stock but not the injectors. By part number it appears to have DSM injectors with resistors wired in series. The car appears to be set up as an OBD1. Anyone have any part numbers for the factory injectors? I believe the car has an integra intake manifold so I'm assuming it would have an integra fuel rail as well. I found part numbers for the OBD2 injectors but not OBD1. I've done a good bit of searching but there is a lot for me to learn because this is my first honda and I plan on doing a built motor/turbo set up on this car which would also be a first for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated here.
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Old Aug 6, 2019 | 04:28 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

get stock injectors
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Old Aug 6, 2019 | 04:38 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Originally Posted by tony_2018
get stock injectors
The question I have is what is the part number for the OBD1 integra LS injectors? I'm assuming that I have an LS manifold when the swap was done and not a B20 IM. Also I mentioned in the OP that I have resistors wired in series because the DSM injectors are low impedance. The resistance value of the DSM injectors are 2.6 Ohms. Is there any 240cc injectors that are compatible with the integra fuel rail/IM that are low impedence injectors?
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Old Aug 6, 2019 | 07:47 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

You'll have to remove the resistors, I believe in B-series fuel rail will work. I recall using the b16 fuel rail and injectors on an obd1 94-95 LS intake manifold when doing a swap into an em1.
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Old Aug 6, 2019 | 11:21 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Okay thanks for the help. I will go ahead and order some injectors. I also read that even OBD2 injectors work but might have to finagle the connector a bit to get them to mate.
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Old Aug 6, 2019 | 04:09 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Stick with B-series, if you're obd2 look for 97-01 integra injectors.
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Old Aug 6, 2019 | 09:00 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

OP, you will need to remove the inline resistors and change the injector clips to work with the model of saturated (high impedance) fuel injectors... be it OBD-1 or OBD-2. The reason for this is the ECU that you are using at this time is programmed for a saturated type of fuel injector. IF you had a tuneable P75 ECU, you could find a set of OBD-0 "B" series fuel injectors and re-tune the idle and light throttle columns and leave your wiring alone. So, there are many ways to solve your issue... you just have to pick the method that makes the most sense to you.
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Old Aug 7, 2019 | 05:33 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Okay thank you for the help. I forgot rockauto exists lol. I ordered 4 new connectors and I am going to take the resistors out of the circuit. so I can at least make this work so I can drive the car the last few months before the winter teardown. I just need to make it till winter time. The previous owner of the car did a terrible job of wiring the motor on the B20 swap. It seems from my noobie bit of experience that they had an OBD1 harness and an OBD2 B20? I believe maybe all the B20s are 96+?. So anyways the engine harness is a hacked up mess.
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Old Aug 7, 2019 | 05:40 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

solder, not crimp.

harness is SPECIFIC TO THE CAR not the engine.
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Old Aug 7, 2019 | 06:20 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Okay thank you
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Old Aug 7, 2019 | 09:17 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

I have Obd1 injectors from a gsr and Obd2 from a 97 civic if your interested...
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Old Aug 7, 2019 | 11:41 AM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Also on a slightly different matter I have a B20B as stated before in my 94 hatch. The car has blue upper and lower radiator hoses I want to swap them out. Do I get hoses for specifically the B20B or the 94 civic hatch? I've been trying to do some research but most of what I found is other b series engines. I've been working 12-16 hour days so I dont get a lot of downtime to research and I dont want to clutter the space with typical rookie questions. It looks like I am going to have to schedule a day off just to work on the car and see where I am at with the new injectors.
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Old Aug 7, 2019 | 08:45 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Order upper and lower radiator hoses for a '94 Acura Integra LS (1.8L non-vtec engine)... and if these hoses do not fit snugly on the inlet and outlet of your radiator, order a radiator for either a '95 Del Sol VTEC or a '99-00 Civic Si (USDM).
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Old Aug 8, 2019 | 04:47 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Can someone please post a link to the specific injectors I need? The ones I ordered and installed still run like **** and they are low impedence injectors which from the research and info provided by you all that I should have to remove the resistors.
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Old Aug 8, 2019 | 09:00 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

The OBD-1 LS injector part number is 06164-PR4-020. You can also use the OBD-2 style injector if you replace the fuel injector clips... that part number is 06164-P72-010.

The basic premise you have to understand here is that "Low Impedence" peak-and-hold (OBD-0) type injectors combine the resistance of approximately 8 ohms from the resistor box (inline resistors in your case) AND the 2-3 ohms of each injector to create 10-11 ohms of total resistance to protect the injector drivers in the ECU. "High Impedence" saturated injectors have 12-16 ohms of resistance by themselves and thus, do not need to ADD the additional resistance provided by the resistor box. Too much resistance slows the injector response and this is why your car still runs crappy.

Now, without making this post too long... the fuel injector pulse-width programmed into the stock LS ECU is specific to the type of fuel injector that was originally used in the factory application. In short: OBD-0 ECU's need OBD-0 fuel injectors and a resistor box; OBD-1/2 ECU's need OBD-1/2 fuel injectors. If you mix match, you MUST have a programmable ECU so that you can modify the fuel injector pulse-width times.
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Old Aug 8, 2019 | 11:50 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Okay that makes more sense. I'm not sure what injectors I have but they are definitely low impedence so I left my resistors in because they had the same resistance as the DSM injectors. I will order a set of injectors based on the part number provided and change the clips. I definitely have an OBD1 ECU. Or at least I think I do.
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 02:48 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

So I replaced the injectors with the stock ones and replaced the clips and removed the resistors from the circuit and now the car wont stay running....I'm really at a loss...
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 02:55 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

ecu...the same one with tune or not?
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 02:56 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Assuming all clips are wired to the correct injector... and the injectors are the proper size and fully functional... I would be looking at the ECU. How about posting a picture of the ECU part number and of the circuit board inside with the top lid off.
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 03:44 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

Okay so now it's running pretty good, I replaced the plugs as well and gapped them to .44 as research informed me to do. It has a surging idle for a few minutes but I think maybe the ECU was trying to figure out what was happening lol? I drove it to redline twice and had no problems. I dont have official tags for the car yet as I'm still waiting on the title from the previous owner. Thanks everyone for the help with getting the car running. A buddy of mine has stock B16a2 injectors at his shop and he just gave them to me to fix my issue. I am going to be making a build thread soon if that is something people like on Honda forums. I want to go B20 vtec I think since I already have the B20 motor and the block is tapped for turbo drain valve.
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 04:12 PM
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Default Re: B20B running rich

sure
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