I have just gone through and replaced the valve cover & spark plug tube seals, vtec solenoid seals & filter, distributor seals and I'm about to replace the oil gasket. (I'm hoping to get that right the first time...so tips would be great, though I've read posts in the forum already.)

There is oil on the bottom of the transmission and I want to know if I've pretty much covered the bases as far as oil leakage is concerned or are there other things to consider. Ideally, I don't want to have to crawl back under the car two or three months from now.

The timing belt, water pump and other belts were replaced at the dealership not long before I bought it, with about 40,000 miles put on since so I don't think I have to deal with anything there.


Pretty nasty gasket leak.

Heavier staining near transmission.

Another view.

 

I thought I was going to get away with not having to remove the torque converter cover (managed to squeeze a socket up in there to remove one of the nuts on the oil pan--can't get it on the other).

As for the center beam... can I just simply unbolt it so it's not in the way, or is it a hassle?

 

So I removed three bolts holding on the torque converter cover, and it feels like there must be another, but I don't see it. Anyone know if there's another bolt (on f22b1 v-tec) or should I try prying it?

 

OK, never mind. I have to remove the shift cable cover. I know I had read about that somewhere on this forum, but forgot about that step.

 

it's pretty clear from the photos that the pan gasket is one source of leakage. but with the concentration (and color- or lack of...red) of oil under the transmission i'd say rear main seal is leaking too.

 

@hondamark35 Is that difficult to replace? I did look at the fluid on the dipstick and it has the reddish tint. Underneath, there is no red is the fluid, just black (not sure if color vanishes over time) but the fluid is much lower viscosity. I was actually thinking it was just fluid film; however, given all the seals that I've been replacing, it's likely there's more. Thank you!

 

Ah, ok I misunderstood. I was thinking that you were suggesting that the color is not as dark and so is not motor oil, but that was really just because when I was under the car, I thought that could be transmission fluid because it wasn't as thick and cruddy as the rest of the oil sludge under there.

Replacing the rear main seal looks like a major chore for which I probably don't have the equipment for. When I think about how that might be leaking, I wonder if I should just go all in and replace the head gasket, too, even though it's not known to be leaking just because I don't want to go through all this other trouble and one year out find I have another mess.

Is there a way to be sure the rear seal leaks or is the presence of oil there enough to draw that conclusion. If I replace that, what specialized tools might I need? What precautions/potential pitfalls could arise? I have to make a decision fairly quickly as to whether I go ahead with this, or just reassemble the car and have a shop do it.

Thank you again for letting me know about something I would have never thought of. It's nice to get answers in here.

 

In my opinion, a head gasket is not a wear item like crank seals are. if there are no signs of it leaking (chamber seals specifically) leave it alone.

for the rear main seal, looking at the numbers may help you decide.

if you do the job of replacing it yourself (assuming you're willing), you will need equipment to remove the transmission. this could be a hoist, a roll-around transmission jack, a normal floor jack and a spare set of hands... anyway, the part will cost you $10-$15. it may take you 3 days since it's your first time. I don't know what your time is worth, but it's worth something. lets assume it's worth half of what a shop will charge you.

a shop will probably charge you (kind of guessing) 8 hours labor... $600-$700 maybe. $20 for the seal. maybe a little more. it'll probably still take three days with drop of, scheduling and so on.

a quart of oil is about $4. a rear main leak on it's own would probably let go of that much in a month or two. so to make your repair worth it, you need to plan to drive the car for another 15 years to spend as much on oil. 10 if you use good oil

 

Could anyone confirm that the part number for my car (95 accord ex, f22b1 vtec, as noted in signature) is 91214-PLE-003

Furthermore, I read that there is one more o-ring that gets forgotten, but where I read it, I don't know if that referred to my model of car....but yeah, if there are any other seals/gaskets etc in that vicinity that may need replacing, I'll just go ahead and do it. I think I can do it--just don't want to get overconfident, since 90% of what I know about cars (not much) is from fixing up this one. :D

 

Are these the seals (rear main and other)? I didn't see any seals in the engine diagrams for this side.

 

It's really just a matter of checking the oil weekly and adding as needed...maybe it can wait. I was considering pulling the engine in the spring anyhow, because I'm going to paint the exterior of the car, so I figured I would touch up the engine bay, replace hoses, some suspension parts...figuring I'd see what I can do in a 2-week span. But I haven't really committed to that idea as of yet. Is pulling the engine over the top that much more complicated than removing the transmission from underneath?

Also, I'm still hoping someone can confirm if the seals above are the ones related to the potential leak?

I'm also wondering if leaks from the v-tec solenoid and distributor could have led to oil staining in the same area--as I have just replaced those.

Hoping to move forward today.

 

Fluid doesn't appear to be red, I don't think it is ATF. ATF also is a pretty good detergent so anywhere ATF usually leaks will clean off the oil and crud and sludge.
Common places to check for the oil leak to make a mess like that.
Distributor internal O-ring, oil leaks out and down the distributor, ontop of the wire harness onto the top of the bell housing, down the back of the block and creeps around the oil pan sealing surface and bottom of the transmission.
VTEC solenoid makes a similar mess as the distributor, without making a mess on the wiring harness or top of trans bellhousing.
Valve cover gasket, usually the corners where the cam cover 'U's over the camshaft, if there is no goo to seal up those corners it will leak, even on new gaskets, same as distributor, leaks down and travels around the oil pan sealing surface as there is a bit of a lip.
Cam or crankshaft seals. If the timing belt is not oily it probably is not either of these. Look for oil being slung inside the timing belt covers.
PS pump. When it leaks the oil drips down and behind the PS/ALT bracket. PS fluid is a bit heavy and tacky, it makes a right mess.
RMS, remove the coverter cover, if the driveplate has oil being sung from it, then it is most likely an RMS issue. Look to the joint of the engine and trans, if that area all around is seeping oil then the RMS is most likely blown.

With the engine slightly warm, spray the engine down with a green cleaner, let it soak in an then blast it off with a nozzled hose for pressure or best the soap wand setting at the coin-op car wash.
With everything clean, or mostly clean, go for a drive, Pop the hood, look for fresh oil.
It can be hard to diagnose a leak location as prop blast and wind from driving down the road can blow oil up/down/left/right of the original location.

 

@MAD_MIKE Thank you. This is especially helpful, since my car isn't currently driveable. Can you tell me if the above diagram shows the "rear main deal"?

My power steering unit was leaking and slinging fluid around, too, and I replaced the seals in it.

 

No, that appears to be a seal for the transmission.


#33 in the above image is the RMS for the engine.

Verify the seal itself is indeed blown before going through the hasslehoff of taking everything off the car to get to the RMS.
If you remove that center beam(five bolts in total) you will have better access to the covers and see the drive plate more clearly. If the driveplate and inside of the bellhousing is dry, then the RMS is most likely fine and not the oil leak.

 

OK, OK I had it right the first time (post #9 above)...I was looking at a lot of diagrams trying to figure this out... Honda just calls it, "oil seal."

Thanks again, Mike!

 

I removed my oil pan and it came out pretty easily, and half of the gasket peeled away from the oil pan just as easily. But one edge seems like it may have had a bead of glue along the length. I'm having a difficult time getting it off, plus the gasket material is still flexible. What can I use to soften the gasket that will not ruin the paint on the outside of the oil pan? Should I paint the pan? Maybe put rocker panel coating on the bottom? There are a few minor rust spots.

****

As for the oil under the transmission, there did not seem to be oil inside the torque converter cover. I took pics with and without the oil pan off, and I will post these later.

 

Pics from underneath the car with torque converter cover, center beam and oil pan off giving a clear view where engine block meets transmission. (I like taking pictures because I can often see things better in the photographs than with my own eyes.)



Oil Pan cover is still on here.

After the oil pan was removed, torque converter assembly is much easier to see.

Different lighting and angle shows the oil staining underneath.

 

Definitely rear main. If you are comfortable with pulling the tranny, the rear main is super easy to replace.

 

OK, I got the impression from @MAD_MIKE that if I didn't have oil behind the torque converter cover, that the seal is likely fine.

Am I missing something?

 

Oops, my bad. I was looking at those pictures wrong. I see the oilpan is off. My bad

 

*Because I often fall off the edge of the world(don't tell the flat earthers) I don't see notifications or messages until sometimes months later. So, here I be y01*

If there is no oil being slung off the drive plate then the RMS is most likely fine.
The biggest problem with locating an oil leak on our cars is that an oil leak can be wind or prop blown and end up in all sorts of strange areas on our cars.

Best thing to do is to simply clean the engine bay, use a green cleaners such as Simple Green or 409, warm up the engine to help get oil/grease viscosity low for easier removal. Liberally spray where oil/grease is, allow to soak in, using preferably warm water spray down the oil/grease and clean the engine and engine bay. This may take a few times if the engine bay has never been cleaned. If the oil pan is really filthy it is best to remove the under tray and clean the pan that way.

Do NOT steam clean, nor bag any electrical components. Steam will wipe carbon tracking off TPS, and steam blasted sensors can fail outright or start corrosion. Most connections are water-tight, not water proof.
Only time you may bag something is if you have the air intake off and do not want the engine to ingest water. Even then use rags and tape to prevent water from entering the engine. Don't bag/cover sensors.
Also it would be wise not to flood components such as the distributor, alternator, and various sensors.

With the engine/engine bay clean, verify all fluids are at their full marks(parked level ground), top of without making a mess. Drive the car around the neighborhood for 10-15mins and look for new wet spots. If nothing, then take the car onto the highway and get some speed(and wind turbulence). Look again for wet spots. These are the indicators of where an oil leak may be.
If you are not losing fluid nor noting any oil leaks at the pan, it may not be the pan.

Items and areas that can cause the oil pan or RMS to appear to be leaking are;

• Leaking valve cover gasket, usually the corner near the distributor.
• VTEC solenoid assembly.
• Distributor O-ring or internal oil seal(check the wire harness below the distributor for oil soakage).
• Oil pressure sensor can also leak. Dripping down onto the oil pan lip.
• Oil fill cap. Oil can drizzle down onto the valve cover rail and then leak down the back of the block.
• Oil seals for cam/crank/balance shaft and leak under the timing belt cover and seep down the back of the engine.

Oil will drip down the back of the engine and due to its angle will usually catch on the lip of the oil pan and due to wind turbulence under the car will blow it all over the place making components that are not leaking appear to be leaking.

PS pump can also leak but it may not appear to be leaking that bad, but the mineral oil based PS fluid attracts crud. Which creates a nasty looking oil leak behind the AC compressor and on the pan rail on the radiator side. That fluid is a bit more difficult to clean off than normal engine oil.

TL:DR
I'm pretty much repeating myself. It is hard to find an oil leak, especially on a stationary/non-running vehicle as aerodynamics does funky stuff.

 

No worries--I always appreciate your advice, though!

I haven't worked on the car since last month. I went ahead and ordered a bunch of rear suspension parts & odds and ends from Rock Auto and Majestic Honda, the latter which will arrive this week, then I'll be back at it. I'm hoping to have this car up and running by mid-October at the latest. Hopefully there won't be any oil leaks (or any other problems) since I'd really just like to get back to driving this car.

BTW, my power steering pump was definitely leaking and I replaced the seals in that as well.