Just finished up the build in late February and was able to make it to March Madness at VIR which was a blast! I wanted to share a quick video for some feedback from you all and to facilitate some conversation regarding technique and driving discussion. A little background on the car, its a 93 si hatchback (Ive owned it since 98) with a k24a2, 09 si transmission (as you will be able to tell from the long *** 6th gear), tuned by Fred Morales (Derf) on E85/93 (~260whp). Suspension is FA500s, swift 10k/12k springs, factory front sway (I know some of you will say take it off), ASR rear 24 mm bar, Ktuned UCA/RLCA/camber, hardrace bushings I will be going with sphericals eventually but it was supposed to be a street car/weekend warrior. Brakes are 15/16ths master, Wilwood 4pot fronts 12.19 with BP-30 pads, stock rear si calipers with hawk black pads and brembo rear rotors. Wheels/Tires are 16x8 rpf1s with 225/45/16 Direzza Star Specs (square). The car has a ton more in it for phase one of the build, this event was a shake down for the car and myself. I havent been to a track weekend in 10 years haha so I am starting over. Yeah I could have braked later and pushed it harder but I also wanted the bring the car and myself back in one piece. With Phase 1 complete, I want seat time for a season or 2, then Ill start on phase two which includes the cage, different tires, upgraded FA510s, more spring, aero, and a bunch of other things that I will add once I have mastered the car in its current form. Anyway enjoy and hit me up on IG @dublocivic. I have some stuff on there and update it occasionally with build info and more track days etc. Thanks Kaan for letting me jack your thread and welcoming me into the H-challenge family (helluva an awesome group of people), I really do appreciate that!


Updated with a new video. Added some upgraded Wilwood GT rotors, some PCI spherical bearings (front UCA, with upper bearings, rear LCAs) and an affordable data setup. Did a write-up on IG covering what I used and some simple info to set things up. Starting to get a little more comfortable with the car. Had a blast, best lap was a 2:18, which I have the data for but no video smh. The weekend ended a little short due to an axle boot failure, I had no spare doh, I have a backup set on it's way. Ill be doing a axle mod how too and some cooling mods before the next event in October along with replacing the remaining rubber bushings with spherical bearings.


Video update from Octoberfast @ VIR with some new parts installed to include DSS 2.9 road race axles, PCI compliance, RTA, FLCA spherical bushings, continued testing on the GT36 rotors BP-30 pads, and some Honed Developments EG/DC air guides. The main focus for me at this event was working on the line a few sections at a time, some offline drills and some wet threshold lock-up drills. There was a good amount of traffic so no superfast flyers but I did focus on section PBs in my TrackAddict app. Full part review for each is on the Instagram account @dublocivic.


Video update from Summit Point. Got moved up to HPDE 2 for this event, after a couple of sessions I was solo'd and was very interested in how the car would do with only one person on board. The GT3 Porsche in this video was really quick with the aero and semi slicks so I wanted to let him by to see how well the EG would hang with him on 200tw with no aero. This was my first experience at Summit Point and it was a very fun and exciting track to start learning.


Hyperfest 2020 at VIR with a few upgrades. Somewhat of a shakedown weekend for the car with some new parts to include a shorter Gear x final drive, OS Giken plate diff, Honed rear roll center correction kit, reverse staggered Toyo R888Rs, Autopower roll bar, Sparco Circuit II seat, Sparco H-7 harness, Konig Dekagrams, and finished out the spherical bushings with some Pro car innovations rear camber and toe links. The car was walking around some up top which at times kept some confidence down a little but the consensus is that the car just really needs aero to settle it down along with some tweaks to front and rear toe. That will be the next item to scratch off the list! Predicted non traffic lap according to my app is in the 11-12s with ambient temps @95f and IATs in the 116-118f range. I sure would like to be a tick under 10 before aero just to help me as a driver learning car control. Hopefully September’s event will be cooler!


Another trip to VIR with NASA Mid Atlantic had some ups and downs. The bad first. I only completed a total of 2-3 sessions for the entire weekend due to a failing throttle position sensor (most likely the cause). I am learning that I should have 3 of everything ready to go, one for my backup another to back that one up and the last one for the guy who didn't bring a backup. I pulled the car apart looking for issues and couldn't find any problems with loose wires/grounds, fuel pump, coil packs etc.. The car would just fall flat on its face and then zero power, then spontaneously pop back to life. Pulled out the multi-meter and started testing stuff and looking at sensor readouts on the laptop. I noticed that the idle was erratic and tip in was really sudden on/off. K series TPS's are notorious for being fragile so I "probed" it and got decent values .5v closed and 4.55v wot. All good there... then I checked continuity through the sensor (two outer wires) and had no continuity. I believe that would be the issue. Boo...

The good.. I figured out that the sub-frame was shifting around causing my alignment to be completely unpredictable from one session to the next causing issues at Hyperfest. To solve this, I installed some sub-frame collars and re-torqued everything and set the front toe to 0. So, did the collars and 0 front toe help? Yes, indeed the combination did.. The car was completely stable and straight as an arrow up over 140 mph and on Saturday morning second session before the TPS acted up I was able to turn a 2:13.5 on VIR full course. Of course, I have no video of that because my app didn't hold my preferences 😬 but I do have the data so, good enough. After I figured my video issues out, I was able to get one random ok lap vid before TPS said no mas. Still a long way to go, but not bad considering this is only the 6th weekend with this build...we are getting quicker👍🏼👍🏼

If you don't follow me on Instagram, check @dublocivic for the latest updates on the project EG track evolution.

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Last event of the season for me.. Octoberfast at VIR with Nasa Mid Atlantic was a great event; the weather was awesome and the car ran perfectly. A review of the Acuity Instruments TPS - The TPS performed perfectly, I had much smoother throttle inputs specifically with part throttle and tip in. With the factory TPS the car had a very abrupt tip in with a bit of an on/off switch which unsettled the car. Not so with the Acuity unit... it was very smooth and the car was much more settled easing into the throttle and much more predictable. The best lap with data was a 2:13.065 with a predicted (traffic limited in the exit of hogpen) of 2:11.055. I had a few flyers on Sunday morning that went faster but the gps would not sync to my app 😡(the speedo was reading a little high in this video as the vss channel was used opposed to GPS). Either way, for the last event of the year for me, I got pretty close to my goal for street tires and no aero (sub :10), a good way to end the season with everything in one piece! A few big changes over the break will address a new and more reliable source of data/video, more grip, and a few other go-fast items.. 😈

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Remember… I’m faster than you, but slower than I need to be. I can arm chair this all day… but these are suggestions to try, one at a time, to see how you feel you like them. VIR is a linked 3.2 mile track... start with T1, the braking, the throttle, the turn in and build from there. I'd suggest telling your instructor that you want to work on T1 and work your way back... have your instructor tell you when to go from T1 to T2. you can actually work on T1 and T2 at the same time, and you will see how things change... then work on T2/T3... T1-3 are linked; T4 to T10 are linked; T11 to T14 are linked; and T14 to T18 are linked. you only get to breath between T3 and T4, because T4 is one of the slowest turns on the track.

Recommendations for next event… move your camera where you can see yourself. You want to see your hand movements and footwork. As you review your overall videos you will see a progression of quickness and confidence with your hands and feet as you pick up speed (or you should).

Overall: You are using too much track and at a 3.2 mile course that’s giving up a lot of time. You are using your HP like an on off switch (or your vtec is set too high IMHO… K motors like earlier change over).

T1 Braking Zone: without telemetry overlay, its hard to tell but it seemed you over slowed the car. Yes you began braking early, but you also slowed down too much.

T1 Turn: you started cheating into the turn a little early. Your apex spot is correct but by cheating you are hurting your grip. In T1 as you open the wheel the track camber goes away and when you cheat the entry you exacerbate the loss of traction and ability to carry speed. In the grand scheme of things this is minor, but it’s a bad habit that will eventually lead you to overworking tires every session.

T2: your entry was from “too far right.” This is lengthening the amount of track you are driving on. Turn in for T2 when you see the tech shed clear the trees and AIM for the T3 turn in point. its hard to tell if you are on the gators at all, but you should just brush the concrete section. overall not too bad.

T3 (NASCAR): if you clean up your approach to T2 you will carry more speed here. Your line is correct and as you pick up speed the carry will go farther and father toward the gators.

T4a: you turned in too early and not hard enough. It also looks like you “fit in” behind that 350z and took his line immediately. Drive your drive. You want to apex the back half of the gators of T4 and keep the car center to left of center for the T4b right hander.

T4b – T6b: it might have been the 350Z in front of you, but this area is FLAT OUT in the lower HP cars… for your it should be at least 80% throttle… it didn’t sound like you were there. Stay off the outside gators between T4b and T5a but use your diff and HP and ride the rest of them.

T7-T9 (the esses): You will pick up a ton of time here. I know you “cant” flat the esses but you need to stay in a little more throttle… maybe 10-15% more throttle. It will help keep the car calm. I heard you breath off the throttle before T9… it’s a LOW traction zone, as you pick up speed you HAVE to stay in the throttle there.

T10 (south bend): You turned in “late” and were off line at least a foot. Being on the gators up there is okay…. You need to be on at least the concrete section. You tracked all the way out and you didn’t need to… I cant tell but I think you drove the car over there instead of letting the car carry itself. Between your exit of T10 and T11, just aim for the arrow marker. Don’t track left so hard… you are driving more track then needed.

T11: This is where your HP is covering things up a bit. T11 is a late braking zone that you trail brake all the way to T12 turn in. start practicing this now… its hard to learn (I still don’t do it correctly all the time) and will take time to master in all situations (traffic dependent).

T12: the line is good here, but practice being smoother with throttle input… if you can smoothly add throttle after turn in AND nail T11, you will pick up 2-3mph (or more) on the back straight. That’s a HUGE deal at VIR.

Back Straight: you come out of T12 and run too hard to the right. Come out of T12 and aim for the kink/dip in the back straight. You don’t have a line to protect so take the straight line approach.

T13/14: your approach was good. You know you are braking early… T13 is another turn you can brake while turning, so learn to push that brake zone through the turn. You stop braking at the turn in point for T14. There is a ton of grip up there, you just have to trust the track will be in the same place every time. You did a good job staying on the back side of 14 and setting up for T15.

T15: good line through there but you need to go full throttle between 15 and 16.

T16a: Your instructors have you doing the beginning steps to the “race” line. The H1 guys are going hard between T15-16, breathing off the throttle at the T16a turn in, braking on the back side of T16a, then turning in for T16b/17.

T16b/17 (hog pen): this will come with practice… the T17 apex isn’t needed “usually”… you will end being a foot or two off the gator every time the faster you get in T16a. you know you are okay in T17 when you don’t run out of track on exit…. You are actually more likely to run out of track at the exit when you are near the gators than when you are off of them. The track camber is better when you are off of them and offers more grip.

Front Straight/T18: you did a much better job here exiting the turn and aiming for a BLIND T18 turn in point. You need to do this on the back straight and it will help times a TON.

 

Kaan would you mind taking a look at my video? Sorry to pop this in your thread OP, but maybe we can all learn here.

This video is from last Memorial Day weekend, last session of the day and myself and another Prelude had the track all to ourselves. This is on my "practice" tires, Firestone Indy Firehawks, so I can't brake quite as deep as normally.

 

Awesome! I appreciate the insight and the constructive criticism. Cant pay for better advice.

I was usually flat when there wasn't traffic through 5a-7, was held up and waiting for the point by on this lap, but overall this was probably my least traffic inhibited lap that I could find. On other laps, I was almost to the top of 5th at the bottom of the uphill esses, slowing to ~120 through the esses. Thank you for the insight into 9, I will work on more throttle input through there to increase the grip.

I could have carried more speed through 10 and let the car track right on its own more, absolutely. 100% agree on staying left after oak tree, again too much track being used there.

On rollercoaster you can hear the fender/tire rub which was caused by that rear toe slipping in =-/ so I was a little soft on the car through there. Ha but Ill need to work on flat through 15-16.. I did notice that when I got hog pen right the rear squatted and felt like never ending grip. I may just not be pushing the tires to their capabilities, not too sure. I really appreciate the awesome advice. The recommendations are 100% spot on and I look forward to implementing as I get more comfortable with the car.

Do you take payment in homebrew? =-P

 

Oh no problem! Anyone is welcome to post laps here. It helps all of us go faster! The more eyes the better. We can all learn from one another, thanks for posting!

 

Ross....I don’t know your setup like I know Adams. Your tires are holding you back a little but I think you can still push the braking more than you are. I used to run some 400TW tires I got on the cheap from TireRack... you can still beat on them and run them pretty hard. One thing is you still need to pay attention to tire pressures, even on the street tire. I’m watching the lap that starts around the 5:10ish mark FYI. As before, these are just suggestions, drive your own drive. I'm not the fastest at all... I know what I'm supposed to do and I need to practice more to execute consistently.

T1 Braking Zone: I don’t know your power level, tires, etc. but you are braking where the 600hp cars are braking. Its something we all (including me) need to work on, but you are overslowing A LOT. You want to start braking later and keep trailing the brakes as you turn in… extend that braking zone after turning in and it will allow you to sit at top speed longer by pushing your braking marker.

T1 Turn: the line is pretty good but it seems you hear tires squeal and wont apply throttle. I can hear the throttle bouncing… you want to stay smooth on the throttle especially just after apex where you lose a little grip and then it comes back (you can see the track is tapered away from you as you go through the turn). It was slightly early for a turn in so you might have been adjusting where your car was pointed.

T2: you are on point here, but on exit you start cheating left and this impacts T3. Keep things straight toward the end of the gators that are track right… brake in a straight line before T3.

T3 (NASCAR): your cheating the exit of T2 gets you a little early apexing in T3. Its okay, since there is track there… but if you keep pushing speed AND cheating things might get ugly in T3 eventually. Also you can be full throttle from the apex of T3 on… or you should be… if you are looking through and there is track, hammer down.

T4a: you can brake a little later for T4 than you are BUT your use of the gator and your pitch angle was good and it really set you up well for T4b/5… you will want to play with your braking zone and turn in as you pick up more speed through T2/3.

T4b – T6b: T4b was great… and then you lifted before T5 only to hit the gator hard. If you would have stayed on the throttle you would have been far enough off the gator. In this section the H22 H2 cars are still flat out… the Hondas LOVE to slides through T4a-T6b, use the wheel and stay in the throttle.


T7-T9 (the esses): you were doing great here until you also slowed before T9. I promise there is grip there… it doesn’t feel like it when the track goes away but it comes back quickly. Just stick with it. the following laps you seemed (from hearing throttle) to coast in the corners of the esses and give a little throttle between. Make the first left, look at the lone tree at the top of the hill and commit to it.

T10 (south bend): turn in was good, but take more left side gator and leave the right side gators for breathing room. Your exit of T10 and your line to T11 was spot on. this is just a safety thing... you'll also notice when you come off a gator it helps load the outside tires and increases grip.

T11: The entry to the turn is up hill… compress that brake zone. I’m down at the 1 marker and still overslowing as I turn in and trail brake. The line is good, but the brake application is something to start working on now. It is the slowest corner on the track (probably between 45 and 55mph depending on the car) so it is hard to judge. on your tires you might be around the 2 maker (R comps vs. Summer tires are huge gains in each corner, they just compound gains for faster times).

T12: throttle and entry was really good here (the 510ish lap)... there was some inconsistency here after the initial lap I looked at.

Back Straight: You worked a little quick to move right (everyone is weary of putting two in the dirt) but the movement was probably a little quick. You didn’t drive extra track too much, but you can clean that up still.


T13/14:This is another uphill braking area that can be compressed and lengthened. You want to be around the 2 marker and possibly work your way in. I’m at the 1 marker or slightly after (depending on traffic) and am still overslowing. Entry was good to 13 and slightly early for 14. If you find you are early for 14, ride the gator higher so you exit at the end of the gators…

T15: good line and good throttle here. Stringing this line with a cleaned up T16a will really wake you up in hog pen.

T16a: assuming you are in a H2-ish H22 motor, you want to stay in the throttle during turn in and start braking as you unwind the wheel. We arent trained to flat out through a turn, let alone one that is going to fall away (but it comes back quickly)… but you want to turn in under throttle and brake just as you get the car straight. I promise hog pen will be a different animal and stinking fast when you do it right… T16b will be a flash of a memory and you’ll be at T17 in the blink of an eye (or so it feels). The people that brake before T16a and then again after T16a are giving up 1-2 seconds a lap. *** at the 12 min mark or so you pass a Miata between T15 and T16a… and you were faster for it… even breathing of the throttle was done later before turn in, this is the reason to breath before, because of a pass… you don’t have to do it if you arent passing***

T16b/17 (hog pen): you did this pretty well. You get on the throttle early, I’m sure you can feel the grip from the suspension compressing. That grip will still be there when you start pushing T16a.

Front Straight/T18: you came out fine and tracked the blind kink well.

 

I'm sending my own data and video off to get analyzed. that being said I think the last time I know someone that used that company... the commenter probably had never driven the track. so its a toss up.

 

Thank you very much! I know I really need to work on T5- it's a mental thing I believe.

 

it probably is... its really easy to let that get into your head. I have my fair share of those demons to exercise. the thing with T5 VIR, going out and just doing it one time... there aren't a lot of consequences if things go wrong. I mean anything can happen but generally you fail at the flat esses and try again next time around.

 

Any info on your feedback? It would be interesting to hear (if they have been on track at VIR) what their take is on your video.

 

I didn't send them tainted data and video (missing windshield, working my new "line", etc). I wont send out data until after the next VIR event. I'm going to be using Racer360... a friend of mine used them, picked up some time, but some of the stuff they sent him was questionable. I'll take all the input I can get and apply what I think will work. Heck I might try it all in practice and see.

a couple of the other HC guys are going to look at my data at summit. Ones car is down and one guy is just slightly faster than I am... we are both trying to pick up the 1-1.1 seconds we need to get into the main pack of 4-7 place cars.

 

Sounds good. It would be interesting to see what the other HC guys say for a peer to peer comparison. Everyone brings a different perspective. For any of the swd folks out there, peer programming can be one of the best ways to become a well rounded developer. Same thing applies to racing imo.

On another note, for the Aug event, I am going to zero out the rear toe, leave the front as is (1/16 out), and play with damper and sway bar settings. I have found that the car pushes just a bit more than I like. Thinking about 3/4 stiff on the rear dampers, 1/2 stiff up front (I was 1/2 stiff on both front and rear last event) with the rear sway on soft initially, then Ill try the stiff setting on the rear sway to see how the car reacts.

 

I stalked your pics... unfortunately there aren't a lot of good pics in T4-5b, your T1 pic is offline a couple feet (being offline will produce feelings of understeer/oversteer depending on where you are on the track... but especially T1), but your oak tree tends to indicate you are overdriving the front tires (3ish wheeling, jumping the curbs and loading the front left).

I'd like to know more of your alignment specs but with your current setup of 10k/12k, 21mm front bar/24mm rear bar... negating your +250hp (but it does matter)... for August (and the heat), I'd be prepared to lower your tire pressures all the way around, be prepared to disconnect your front sway bar (run all day Saturday with it, disconnect Saturday night and run Sunday without it)... do one change per session... stiffen your rear shocks, then next session put the fronts back and stiffen up the front, etc.

I'll try to see when you are going out and run over to T4-5b and see whats going on. your pics aren't taken at the right time to really tell at VIR. FYI most of the H2 guys just change rear toe between the two tracks.

 

Just for info- the difference (for me) between 1/8" rear toe out and 1/8" toe in is almost 90* more/less steering wheel input at Oak Tree. The car danced around a little too much for my liking (especially under braking) with the toe out, but it was definitely quicker through the corner. I'm going to try 0 next and see how that feels

 

Hard to give any feedback without data.....

there are good parts of your line and then there are bad bad bad parts......I hope you had an instructor and I hope that wasn't the line he/she was showing you.

biggest issue is you are drag racing the car......260 hp should be good for a 205 or 206......you ran a 222ish......that means you are giving up over 1 second per corner and brake zone......that means there is room for improvement.


only the first lap but you get the idea....that is 221 hp ran a couple 209's that session


SEAT TIME SEAT TIME SEAT TIME

Ride with someone (who has experience) every chance you get!!

 

uncle chad put a passenger seat in your car... :-/

I don't think they have test and tune at the next VIR event or I'd try to drag you in the car with me.

Edit: also you need more video on the youtubes for me to watch <3

 

Which pictures? catesracing? I have some on hot or not and also a fruit of the loom feature add so I wasn't sure which ones you are talking about.

Yeah I don't know what the rear toe is currently at. I had it set to 0 but the rear driver toe was 100% negative on the adjustment bolt (it had slipped at some point). So I figure, Ill start at 0 and go from there. Front toe is out 1/16th. Caster is set at about the factory spec (adjusted slightly backward just to put a smidge of tension on the traction bars), F camber is -2.2, R camber is -1.75. I cant seem to get more negative camber out of the front with these adjustable UCAs (maxed out) although I didn't get a quick enough reading with my laser temp since the tires cool quite a bit before I can get back to the paddock and check. Where are you guys typically checking tire temps at VIR? They were still sticky back at the paddock but I have no idea what the spread across the tires are hot with the current camber setting. Tire pressures were 31psi cold. Stock front SI swaybar with energy suspension bushings, rear 24mm ASR on soft. Ride height is 24.5 at all 4 fenders and it has not been corner balanced yet.

Ill follow that approach with what you have recommended and see how it pans out. Sounds like a logical plan. Thanks for the photo analysis!

 

yes the finishline products/cates racing photos... "not hot"

31 psi cold might be a bit high... my 200TW I ran down around 29 cold. My buddy was taking temps (especially in the front) at VIR in the paddock area... and I was within 5* O/M/I on all sections of all tires. we will see what happens at Summit. for 200TW I'd just really worry about are they being used (read the tire edges) too much or not at all... that's how I finally found my starting tire pressures.

buy PCI front upper control arms... you'll get the camber you need. Also you need the rear to be a little taller than the front, it will help with rotation.

 

looking at the front tires at 31 psi I could see that they were showing heat to 1/4 inch over the shoulder of the tire but not on the sidewall at all so it wasn't rolling them over. I can go to 1/2 inch forward rake and 0 out the rear toe and see if that helps rotation before doing anything else. Ill check tire temps to see what they are after the first round to make sure they are close across the board. Thanks for the heads up on the PCI UCAs. Ill order a set and switch them out. I think more front camber will really help grip.

 

Hopefully I will have data overlay for some videos from August's event. I tried to get Harrys to work but it was bugging out on me so I really need a good 10ghz gps for good data. I appreciate the feedback on the line, the more seat time I get the more comfortable I will get with the car. I know there is a ton of time in the car between my driving, getting the corner speed up (from proper alignment, dampening, and sway bar settings), and driver confidence. That track weekend was only my second at VIR (the first being only a hyperdrive 10 or 12 years ago in my old evo) so I am really learning the track and new build at the same time. Its a big learning curve. I feel pretty good about a 222 on 200wt with the new build going together. I was thinking the car was more 212-ish knowing that I wasnt driving flat. But if you say 205-206, awesome! That means I have a ton of work ahead of me. Are you running any aero to get a 209 with 221hp? What tire?

Yep, I had two different instructors over the weekend. We had a ton of fun. I didnt nail everything they were telling me but we worked on specific areas that I needed the most help on. Im still working on putting together coherent sentences while driving lol seems like the hardest thing to do! You didnt know that I used to live my life a quarter mile at a time? I used to drag race back in the late 90's early 2000's so please dont hold that against this convert =-D I surely could brake later, deeper etc. All in the seat time like you said. I rode with my instructor for a session and the corner speed blew my mind in his car. Thats why I say my corner speed is slow! Thanks for the video and the advice, very much appreciated!

 

start with very little rake... do one turn on each rear collar. you arent corner balanced or set near your ideal weight (if you have identified one). whoever does your corner balance needs to know to keep a little rear rake in and set it from there. i know a guy... but a baseline is 4 hours of work so it costs a little.

 

I am hoping to put the car on the scale this weekend to see what it weighs. I would think its 2300-2350 right now if I had to guess. End goal for this car is to get the hp/weight set for TT1 (for NASA stuff). Thanks for the tips with the rake, Ill try one turn and see how it feels. I think Ill take my measurements from the jack points. I don't think going by fender height is accurate enough.

 

dont bother with corner balancing until you are settled in the car, going solo, etc.

 

I put the car on the scale today and it is 2269 with a full tank of gas and 2480 with Sir Fluffy in it. I had no post build weight so its a good starting point to work with.

 

that's really light. take that into account when its time to cage it fully and put weight were you need to. look at the TT1 weight requirements or whatever classes your car will fit in and try to get strike a balance on where your weight will be.