accord 6th gen 4cyl. auto to manual swap
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accord 6th gen 4cyl. auto to manual swap
hello
i've been investigating this notion and have couple of questions:
my engine is f20b5 since i live in the middle east
.
already ordered an ecu from a european manual coupe.
which tranny to chose? i want to retain the same 6th gen final drive ratio in order to keep the speedo accurate, and maybe get a 6th gen speed sensor. and i want a compromise of power and comfort to the ear and the wallet, so the candidates are T2C5 and M2J5. or maybe just go for the standard P2A8?
i've read here that the f-series trannies suck, but why actually?
as for the m2j5- they have 2 cooling lines go to the lumpy speed sensor. what are they for and can it be replaced by the regular sensor?
if i get a tranny from a different model, say jdm perlude- can i use its flywheel, starter motor and slave cylinder?
that's all for now.
thanks
i've been investigating this notion and have couple of questions:
my engine is f20b5 since i live in the middle east
.already ordered an ecu from a european manual coupe.
which tranny to chose? i want to retain the same 6th gen final drive ratio in order to keep the speedo accurate, and maybe get a 6th gen speed sensor. and i want a compromise of power and comfort to the ear and the wallet, so the candidates are T2C5 and M2J5. or maybe just go for the standard P2A8?
i've read here that the f-series trannies suck, but why actually?
as for the m2j5- they have 2 cooling lines go to the lumpy speed sensor. what are they for and can it be replaced by the regular sensor?
if i get a tranny from a different model, say jdm perlude- can i use its flywheel, starter motor and slave cylinder?
that's all for now.
thanks
Last edited by 2pac1; Dec 30, 2018 at 05:50 AM.
MM Gruppe B
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From: 94577/Gaillimh
Re: accord 6th gen 4cyl. auto to manual swap
Honda already does the gear ratio VSS sensor for you. No need to change anything..
It measures the speed directly at the differential. You changing gear ratios does nothing do the differentials speed.
Older US RWD cars measure speed at the transmission output/driveshaft speed. If the FD is changed then you will need to change the gear inside the trans to match the FD as you are measuring the pinion gears input speed, not the differentials output speed.
You would only need to correct this if you change the wheel/tire height/diameter size.
It measures the speed directly at the differential. You changing gear ratios does nothing do the differentials speed.
Older US RWD cars measure speed at the transmission output/driveshaft speed. If the FD is changed then you will need to change the gear inside the trans to match the FD as you are measuring the pinion gears input speed, not the differentials output speed.
You would only need to correct this if you change the wheel/tire height/diameter size.
Case is the same from 90-97 Accords/92-96 Preludes, and again 98-02 Accords/97-01 Preludes, they are interchangeable.
Difference is the gear ratios. USDM F22/F23 Accords use 'tall' gear ratios for economy. Other F series transmissions(F18-F20) will have 'short' gears to compensate for the lack of torque output. But they are not as well documented as the USDM market was obviously larger. F22/F23 transmissions 'suck' due to the taller gear ratios do not allow the car to accelerate as fast as possible. An H22 transmission will have the best stock gear ratios for acceleration, but used with an F22/F23 the engine will have a much higher cruising rpm as the short stroke H22 needs to have a slightly shorter gear ratio to maintain its sporty feel and to compensate for its lack of torque. F22/F23 has more lower/midrange torque and does not need to rev as high to maintain a given road speed. Other options are to use the F22 Prelude transmission or H23 Prelude transmission, or Accord Wagon(shooting brake/Estate) transmission that maintains the Accord gear set with a slightly lower final drive.
With an F20, use an F20 gearset or H22 for sportier acceleration.
On the 4th Gen Accords, that sensor is the 'speed sensor' used to vary PS assist at different speeds. If your car uses the speeds sensor I would leave it installed to maintain functionality.
Flywheels are the same between F and H series, they should be 0 balance, but always bring your current flywheel/driveplate to a machine shop and verify there wasn't any fine tuning needed to match your current setup. Starter motor and slave are the same for MT F/H cars so you can use them. Just make sure to get the proper wiring harness for hte backup switch and starter as they are different from the AT cars. Make sure to use the MT flywheel bolts, they are slightly longer than AT driveplate bolts.
Difference is the gear ratios. USDM F22/F23 Accords use 'tall' gear ratios for economy. Other F series transmissions(F18-F20) will have 'short' gears to compensate for the lack of torque output. But they are not as well documented as the USDM market was obviously larger. F22/F23 transmissions 'suck' due to the taller gear ratios do not allow the car to accelerate as fast as possible. An H22 transmission will have the best stock gear ratios for acceleration, but used with an F22/F23 the engine will have a much higher cruising rpm as the short stroke H22 needs to have a slightly shorter gear ratio to maintain its sporty feel and to compensate for its lack of torque. F22/F23 has more lower/midrange torque and does not need to rev as high to maintain a given road speed. Other options are to use the F22 Prelude transmission or H23 Prelude transmission, or Accord Wagon(shooting brake/Estate) transmission that maintains the Accord gear set with a slightly lower final drive.
With an F20, use an F20 gearset or H22 for sportier acceleration.
Flywheels are the same between F and H series, they should be 0 balance, but always bring your current flywheel/driveplate to a machine shop and verify there wasn't any fine tuning needed to match your current setup. Starter motor and slave are the same for MT F/H cars so you can use them. Just make sure to get the proper wiring harness for hte backup switch and starter as they are different from the AT cars. Make sure to use the MT flywheel bolts, they are slightly longer than AT driveplate bolts.
Thread Starter
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Re: accord 6th gen 4cyl. auto to manual swap
so you say that the sensor reads the speed of the final drive itself?
i saw that preludes for instance use a different part numbers for the starter motors.
i saw that preludes for instance use a different part numbers for the starter motors.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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From: 94577/Gaillimh
Re: accord 6th gen 4cyl. auto to manual swap
AFAIK I have never encountered anyone needing a Prelude or Accord VSS over the other. Only difference is the 4th gent 90-93 used a pigtail to connect to the main harness, and 94-97s you directly connect to the VSS, there is no pigtail. Otherwise there is no difference in functionality. Now if you pull the PS 'Speed Sensor' to use on your MT trans(I'm not sure on interchangability of the Speed sensor itself) then you may want to verify that the geared portion is the same tooth count as your original trans. But I doubt it.
ECU expects a given amount of pulses per mile for the car, I doubt Honda would have over complicated something like this. RPM of the differential will be the same RPM as the wheel, and that is what will dictate your actual speed.
2.2/2.3 engines use a 1.6kW motor and the smaller engines 1.8-2.0 use a 1.4kW starter motor.
With your 2.0 you can't really go wrong, you can use the 1.4kW or the 1.6kW starters.
ECU expects a given amount of pulses per mile for the car, I doubt Honda would have over complicated something like this. RPM of the differential will be the same RPM as the wheel, and that is what will dictate your actual speed.
With your 2.0 you can't really go wrong, you can use the 1.4kW or the 1.6kW starters.
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Re: accord 6th gen 4cyl. auto to manual swap
Regarding vss, what determines whether the reading of the speedo is in miles or kms?
ie- if my speedo is in kms and the vss is from a miles car, and the ecu is from lord knows...
ie- if my speedo is in kms and the vss is from a miles car, and the ecu is from lord knows...
MM Gruppe B
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: 94577/Gaillimh
Re: accord 6th gen 4cyl. auto to manual swap
Nothing.
The speedometer is the same from KPH and MPH, only difference is which silkscreen was used, MPH, KPH, or a combination of both.
It's not hard to learn that 100KPH ~ 60MPH, 80KPH ~ 50MPH... 40KPH ~ 25MPH.
1.6 Kilometers ~= 1 Mile.
The speedometer is the same from KPH and MPH, only difference is which silkscreen was used, MPH, KPH, or a combination of both.
It's not hard to learn that 100KPH ~ 60MPH, 80KPH ~ 50MPH... 40KPH ~ 25MPH.
1.6 Kilometers ~= 1 Mile.
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