Honda Accord (1990 - 2002) Includes 1997 - 1999 Acura CL

Engine Stalls Constantly

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Old Dec 15, 2018 | 07:48 PM
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Icon3 Engine Stalls Constantly

This is my first post on honda tech and have finally decided to consult the forums for help since I know no honda people. I have 8 nuts inside my crankshaft somewhere, I was attempting to do a tune up on the 92 Honda Accord LX, F22A1 engine, and the spark plug wells on cylinders 1,2,3 were so flooded with oil I couldn't see the spark plug, removed all the oil and replaced the spark plugs and attempted to replace the gasket down there... I ended up breaking one of the bolts on the head that holds the valve cover, and then I miss-torqued the valve nuts and they ended up coming off the valves and I managed to find 10 nuts floating around the top of the head by the valve cover. It's leaked oil insanely, I would see drips of oil from pulling into my drive way, I figure 1-2 quarts a day. While driving today something "clicked" and started making a awful rattling noise two blocks from my friends house, as I pulled into the parking spot the car just stalled. Kinda worried so we head back to my place and stopped at napa, stalled coming to a stop in the parking lot and threw 2 quarts in, made it sound much better. Leaving, I felt like I was only getting 25% of the power I normally would get, getting to 35 was a challenge. When I came to the red light the car stalled, started it and instantly stalled, does NOT sound like it lost fuel (I have a XJ with a bad fuel pump) and so I learned if I kept giving it gas it would stay alive, that worked for about 4 blocks and then it died going down the road, turned over and then died again so I pulled over. Got towed home and it turned over just fine when I went to park it but stalled as I got in the driveway. I found that the oil is a chocolate milk color? It is very shiny with metal shavings
I've already picked a replacement head for it (nearly the same mileage) but I can't afford all the gaskets required to replace the head (sucks being a jobless college student haha) I'm currently working on taking the oil pan off to see if any nuts are down there.
Please point me in the right direction on getting this fixed and thank you for taking the time to read my post. I will post a follow up after removing the oil pan.
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Old Dec 16, 2018 | 11:32 AM
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From: NoVA
Default Re: Engine Stalls Constantly

so let me try to recap your adventure:
1. you performed a tune up, spark plugs, valve adjustment, etc. (what else did you do?)
2. while doing so you found the spark plug tube seals were leaking
3. you replaced the tube seals (are the tube seals still leaking?)
4. but broke a cam cover bolt in the process (did you replace the broken bolt?)
5. during the valve adjustment you failed to tighten the lock nuts properly, somehow 8 lock nuts ended up in the crankcase.
6. the engine probably made weird noises so you removed the cam cover again and found 10 more valve adjustment nuts laying in the cam/rocker arm area (there are 16 nuts total but 8 went into the crankcase and 10 were found in the cam/rocker area, ok)
7. you reassembled everything again but the cam cover gasket is leaking oil like crazy. (did you use a new gasket and sealer around the ends?)
8. you have been driving it with a crazy oil leak and putting 1 to 2 quarts of oil a day in it (you didn't say how long you have been diving it hemorrhaging oil)
9. today while driving it you heard various noises, put more oil in it (may have lost enough oil the oil pressure was zero), then found the power was way down.
10. when driving it home it died, then got towed, basically doesn't run now
11. while draining the oil you found the oil looks like chocolate milk, with metal shavings
12. you bought a replacement head (why ?)
13. now hoping to get lucky tearing it apart with help from the forum..
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Old Dec 16, 2018 | 12:58 PM
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From: 94577/Gaillimh
Default Re: Engine Stalls Constantly

Originally Posted by knavishmammal
This is my first post on honda tech and have finally decided to consult the forums for help

Originally Posted by knavishmammal
I have 8 nuts inside my crankshaft somewhere,

Originally Posted by knavishmammal
I was attempting to do a tune up on the 92 Honda Accord LX, F22A1 engine, and the spark plug wells on cylinders 1,2,3 were so flooded with oil I couldn't see the spark plug, removed all the oil and replaced the spark plugs and attempted to replace the gasket down there...
I ended up breaking one of the bolts on the head that holds the valve cover, and then I miss-torqued the valve nuts and they ended up coming off the valves and I managed to find 10 nuts floating around the top of the head by the valve cover.

Originally Posted by knavishmammal
It's leaked oil insanely, I would see drips of oil from pulling into my drive way, I figure 1-2 quarts a day.
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Originally Posted by knavishmammal
While driving today something "clicked" and started making a awful rattling noise two blocks from my friends house, as I pulled into the parking spot the car just stalled. Kinda worried ...

I have several questions.
What and where exactly are all these nuts coming from?
How did you break the valve cover studs? Aren't there only four nuts?
Did you re-use the gasket or did you get new gasket set? And if so you only used Honda or Victor Reinz/Mahle, right?
You did add a dab of sealant on the corners of the VC, right?
Did you strip the adjusting nuts on the rocker arms? Did you replace them or just drove with the busted bits?
Where are all these nuts coming from?

Originally Posted by knavishmammal
I have a XJ
This aint a Jeep mate.
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Old Dec 16, 2018 | 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Engine Stalls Constantly

1. That's all I did to the engine.
3. I did not replace the tube seals, as I didn't get the cam removed after i broke one of the bolts.
4. I did not replace the bolt since it broke right at the start of the thread, about 3 inches in and so my step dad told me to get a new head because he didn't want to remove the broken bolt.
5. I've been driving it like this for about 2 weeks.
6. My apologies on counting, after checking I have a total of 8 nuts not 10....
I'm pretty sure I found a major source of the leak, the oil pan gasket was coming out from between the pan and the block. I'm still working on getting it removed since the exhaust is really on there and I do not have any impact tools. I'm not necessarily asking for help tearing it apart and rebuilding it, but more so what to look out for since I've caused so much damage to the engine already.
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Old Dec 16, 2018 | 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Engine Stalls Constantly

I have several questions.
What and where exactly are all these nuts coming from?
How did you break the valve cover studs? Aren't there only four nuts?
Did you re-use the gasket or did you get new gasket set? And if so you only used Honda or Victor Reinz/Mahle, right?
You did add a dab of sealant on the corners of the VC, right?
Did you strip the adjusting nuts on the rocker arms? Did you replace them or just drove with the busted bits?
Where are all these nuts coming from?

The nuts are coming from the rocker arms that I believe are used during a valve adjustment.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one, I was trying to remove it and it snapped, I didn't use PB Blaster this time but I am now using it religiously on every nut and bolt I remove.
The first time I opened the valve cover I did replace the gasket, but since then I've opened it 3 times and have not replaced the gasket, I will be replacing this gasket and sealing it with a thin layer of gasket maker. But I did not do this the first time.
No I did not strip them, just under torqued and then we didn't have all the nuts and it seemed to run better without any so we left them all off.... there was only one nut still on the rocker arm but we removed it.
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Old Dec 16, 2018 | 01:53 PM
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MAD_MIKE's Avatar
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From: 94577/Gaillimh
Default Re: Engine Stalls Constantly

Originally Posted by knavishmammal
we didn't have all the nuts and it seemed to run better without any so we left them all off.... there was only one nut still on the rocker arm but we removed it.


Purpose of those nuts on the rockers is to lock the adjusting screw.
Without the nuts the screws will back out and you will lose lift/power and increase the lifter noise.
If you are lucky you can readjust and reinstall the nuts.
If not, you will need to locate new adjusting screws and enough locking nuts to properly lash and lock down.
If you have a proper gasket you will only need to add a bit of rtv at the corners that are at the 'U' of the gasket that goes over the camshaft.
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Old Dec 16, 2018 | 02:26 PM
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From: NoVA
Default Re: Engine Stalls Constantly

ok, wow
you cant run the engine without the lock nuts on the rocker arms, all kinds of badness will result. you need 16 lock nuts.
#3 above, you mentioned removing the cam, did you break a bolt on one of the cam bearing caps? or a bolt that holds the cam cover on? its still not clear exactly what bolt(s) are broken.
so the oil hemorrhaging is due to loose or missing bolts in the oil pan and not the cam cover? do you have all the pan bolts and a new pan gasket?
do not pry on the oil pan, if you bend the pan, even a little bit, it will leak
did you find the 8 lost nuts in the oil pan?
if you haven't already removed the head post a picture of the broken bolt.
water can get into the oil in many ways: 1)head gasket, 2) cracked head, 3) cracked block and the metal you found in your oil may be from the connecting rod bearings in which case you need a complete tear down or a whole replacement engine.
honestly, at your skill level you may not be ready to replace a honda head (or block) without onsite help, just getting the bolt out of the harmonic damper may be beyond your capabilities not to mention correct install of the balancer and timing belts, checking the head and block for warpage, remove and install of fuel injection system and exhaust manifold.

get your xj fixed, will probably be cheaper.
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Old Dec 16, 2018 | 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Engine Stalls Constantly

Originally Posted by schreps
ok, wow
you cant run the engine without the lock nuts on the rocker arms, all kinds of badness will result. you need 16 lock nuts.
#3 above, you mentioned removing the cam, did you break a bolt on one of the cam bearing caps? or a bolt that holds the cam cover on? its still not clear exactly what bolt(s) are broken.
so the oil hemorrhaging is due to loose or missing bolts in the oil pan and not the cam cover? do you have all the pan bolts and a new pan gasket?
do not pry on the oil pan, if you bend the pan, even a little bit, it will leak
did you find the 8 lost nuts in the oil pan?
if you haven't already removed the head post a picture of the broken bolt.
water can get into the oil in many ways: 1)head gasket, 2) cracked head, 3) cracked block and the metal you found in your oil may be from the connecting rod bearings in which case you need a complete tear down or a whole replacement engine.
honestly, at your skill level you may not be ready to replace a honda head (or block) without onsite help, just getting the bolt out of the harmonic damper may be beyond your capabilities not to mention correct install of the balancer and timing belts, checking the head and block for warpage, remove and install of fuel injection system and exhaust manifold.

get your xj fixed, will probably be cheaper.
Wow I'm shocked he let me drive away like that, I had my dad's friend (datsun master mechanic like my dad) looking at it with me since he was going to try to try to do a valve adjustment since that was the issue that the time (didn't have all the nuts so we didn't do it)

I used a cork to block the hole so oil wouldn't spray out.

Left bolt is from a random F22A1 and the right is the bolt I broke. It has scratches that appear to be from a thread.
. I'm aware I don't have the skills to do this work but I have perseverance and determination, I know how to check for warp-age and how to fix it. I was told by a couple people that if I set my current head to TDC1 and mark the camshaft gear, to then set the new head to TDC1 and remove the camshaft gear, use a long pole and wires to hold the current gear in place so it doesn't change timing or shift and replace the head and reinstall the camshaft gear, is this a valid method or am I just going to damage more things?
I've done work on the XJ as it was mine and my dad's project, I am thinking about fixing it since the winter here is supposedly very bad but it hasn't even snowed yet, I have to renew the tabs so that is why I have been deterred away from it. Again, I'm a broke college student.
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