I can not seem to get a still pedal. Here is what I know about these beasts...

1) They are a B****!
2) Always seems to hold air
3) Can take up to all night and beyond to gravity bleet
4) Air can still hang up somewhere, reverting to #1
5) Installed new Master Cylinder thinking it was the issue but it is not.

Questions....

1) I have a copy of the shop manual. Shop manual shows brake hoses going into a Y blocks. I have an H block but it is not in the shop manual, what the???? It shows the ABS getting direct input from the Master Cylinder. It seems to have bypassed the H shaped block. Am I missing the H block? What page is it on?
2) Gravitational drain didnt help. Next idea is I got 4 bleeder screws, drilled holes in them and I am going to bleed all 4 at the same time into 4 bottles with hoses attached to the bleeder screws. Has anyone ever tried this with sucsess?


As for now, I am gonna try one wheel at a time with a check valve on it into a bottle and see how that goes.

 

Does the pedal sink when stopped? If you didn't bleed the new master cylinder properly first you may never get a good pedal. Also don't rule out a defective part. I have installed several hudraulic components that would never get stiff no matter how much I bled them. Simply returning for a replacement solved the problem. Happened to me with both a break and clutch master cylinder.

 

It sinks when I first step on it and builds up a little when I pump it. Before i replaced it, it would go to the floor but pump up good if I pumped it a few times.

I took two LONG hoses from the MC, routed them into the resivior, cliped on with cloths pins and pumped the brakes until no air bubbles were present in the line.

I have heard storys of failures of new parts. I hope this is not my nightmare as I have yearly inspection in 15 days .

Thanks for the ideas though, will keep them in mind.

 

Generally speaking you don't even need to bleed the system after a master cylinder replacement. It sounds to me like you have a faulty reman master cylinder. These parts are churned out and they don't have the time to take into consideration things like the condition of the bore in the MC.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong and you have air in your hydraulic break system. I have not clue.


I have spent years, well over a decade, tinkering with shitty brakes on my Hondas. What I have found to make the pedal stiff again is to flush all of the fluid, replace all four calipers and if necessary the master cylinder. Bleeding with the pedal doesn't seem to get all of the old fluid out. I'm going to start to try vacuum bleeding the lines soon. That might go a LONG way in preserving caliper longevity.

That all said I have replaced the break MC and properly bled it and still had a sinking pedal. The only cure was a replacement. I **** you not I ran a gallon of DOT 3 through the system bleeding it to no avail. After a replacement and with a proper bleed **** was done in minutes. That slayed me. The first new MC looked so good! New car parts and all.

Don't get me started on the clutch master cylinder I got that was bad. I lost close to 9 hours of my life trying to bleed it. When I returned it and got a new one I was driving in under 30 minutes.

 

Yea, thats one thing on cars that scares me, brakes, just because of the idiosyncrasy with them. I like to get in, get the job done and get out. If I want a complicated squirly unresolvable situation, I would get another girlfriend!

I do have to appologize at this point. I did leave out one detail, BUT, thats only because I went around and bled the system before... That detail is that when i got the car, the front pass side brake hose was fried and leaking like a seive. By the time I got to it, the MC was well drained. Like I said though, I did go around and bleed per PR/DF and DR/PF order.

 

Okay, my 6 hour hell is over!

Started out at 10am with 4 clear bottles that had small holes in the top, tubing and 4 bleeder screws with the bottoms drilled out (I wanted to get a good seal with the bleeders tight but still flow fluid. That way, no air could get in through the bleeder screw threads). I opened the PR and DF bleeders together to see which flowed faster, both about the same. Installed special bleeder in front but the back was the incorrect size!! WTF, I checked this TWICE, on "2" different locations to be sure !! Fine! I have the bleeder screws loose so I pump the brakes to see what flow and air comes out the front. All looks normal so I release and let gravity take over. Of course the back doesnt bleed out the hose, because as I suspect, using the original bleeder, its all coming out the threads . I go to the front to check status and I am getting an on going trail of bubbles. Like little ants marching in a line they just keep coming. I think, wow, thats a lot of air but after a minute or to, I am like, uhm, wait, this isnt right. So I figure something is wrong with my apparatus and decide to put the old bleeder in and gravitate bleed like the back. I get to where I feel like all is good, close up the bleeders, go to thow on the front wheel and notice the rim has old-ish brake fluid on it. I spray it with parts cleaner for future drip ref, start to jack up the other side to do the other 2 brakes, look inside the DS wheel while walking by and see fresh drips of brake fluid . Pull the DS front wheel off and its leaking out the nipple?? Was it my new improved bleeder that jacked up the caliper? No, couldn't be, there is marks all over the tire from previous fluid. No matter what, a trip to the parts store (thank god I have 2 cars for this reason) and $42 later, rebuilt caliper on. Drop her down, go take off PF and DR and proceed to do a gravitational bleed. I open the PF first (that was the side that had the blown line, so, I want to work that first then go back to the shop manual directions) and I got a lot of bubbles and took a minute to get a drip. Hmmm, AIR! I have also learned that wherever air is, if you pump the brakes and hold, the air goes to a certain spot. Release the brakes and the air goes right back to where it started. Sometimes not quite where it started but no further than before. With that in mind, I figure if there is air lodged somewhere, I am gonna slam it out of its location. I hit the brakes hard, release, get a drip going and do it again for the front. Did this twice for hte front and then did the back once. Once the back was dripping, I let it drip while I changed front sway bushings. closed the back and proceeded to let the front drip, again, for 5 minutes or so. Tightened it all up and I HAVE "GOOD" BRAKES!!

My advice to people with lodged air, dont be afraid to push HARD "one" time (and I mean fkn HARD!!) to loosen up some air after your getting a good drip. As long as you let it go back to dripping before you do anything again, I am sure you will be fine. I do NOT advise this with calipers off. Should not hurt as air doesnt go to far back, but, a lot less room in a hose than a caliper full of oil. A caliper can not suck up too much air doing it one time that it would be drained to the lowest point. I could be wrong and your mileage may vary, but, if your desperate, by all means. I wish I had the correct rear caliper bleeder screws to be able to keep the tubes submerged in the bottles, but, it worked out for me anyways.


Thanks again for all the support, one happy camper here!!