So, I pick up this 94 beater for $200 (not including $56 uhaul tow) that supposedly had 189k on it. I get it home and it is a full on basket case! They even played dukes of hazard with it, bent up the gas tank and ripped out the rear sway bar attaching clips straight up, lol.

Anyhew, when checking it out before I bought it, I thought I heard some rods a knocking. Ran good, but, on giving it gas, could hear what sounds like a gurgle/rattle. I assumed bearings, so, I figured I would check compression to see if I needed to do the rings and head gasket while being in the engine. While warming it up and revving it a little, it didnt seem like a block knock but rather a "possible" manifold leak as when you let off the gas, you get a gurgling sound like when a stick shift down shifts coming to a stop. I put that idea aside and went on with the compression test thinking that bad bearings is gonna be bad compression. I did a compression and it came out to 189 / 185 / 185 / 185 (give or take a PSI or 2). Uhm, thats some dang good compression (picks to prove, ha ha) for a car with 189k miles? Maybe? Maybe someone replaced the engine? Maybe?

Can it be that good after (assumingly) getting the snot beat out of it? I KNOW PO didnt care about the car as it looks like someone took a shotgun and blasted all four corners of the interior and ceiling. Marks are everywhere, 90% trim cracked/gouged and ripped this and that... Only thing that survived was the pillars. I really doubt the PO was concerned about oil changes. I just bought it as my first Honda toy and to practice painting on.

What do you all see in 180k miles cars for compression? Possible to have that good of compression AND have bad bearings, or, does the compression tell another story? I know American cars and how they wear, not so sure on these jap-o-neeze doo hickys!

 

180 is just barely broken in for these engines. That being said, proper maintenance would dictate the overall health of the engine.

Those compression numbers are usual.

Is the knock coming from the bottom end for sure? It could be that the valves are out of adjustment.

 

I went out and played with it again. I know what v8 rod knocking sounds like and this is NOTHING like that. It has knocking sounds in it, fluttering sounds, flapping (yes flapping) sounds, buzzing sounds all mixed in at fdii intervals and, its not always the same frequency sound. Oddly, it changes pitch/tone on rev and decel. I hear it more so in the front lower engine area, right about where the exhaust manifold wraps under the engine. Usually, with a v8, your hear the same exact sound, it just comes and goes. Not with mine. I need to find some youtube vids to see if I can find a duplicate. Might have to also give it the "flooded transmission fluid in the intake when hot" trick. That useually makes a nice white smoke test.

If you saw the interior of this tihng, there would have to be no way in he!! the PO was interested in taking care of the engine, lol.

Oh, also, it is quiet as a mouse at ANY engine speed you hold it at. It only makes noise when you rev it quick.

 

 

Thats one reason I wasnt "too" worried about the car having so many miles on it. I was taking the bet that it would be a good daily beater and something to practice painting on.

The only thing I am curious about is, on these Japanease imports (hondas of course), will the compression test and rings dictate the condition of the rest of the engine (my bearings in this case)? Or, is it still any order of internal failure can happen and one does not dictate the other? Obviously the logicle sense is the later, but, I am asking from "experience", not sense, and what you all have come across.

 

That is correct one does not always follow the other. Now, if there are signs of overheating and/or oil starvation that would be better indicators of possible bearing loss. The condition of the cylinders won't really tell you much about bearing wear.

If you are worried about the crank and rod bearings you will have to drop the exhaust and oil pan. That is the only way you can check and see if there is any abnormal play in any of the bottom end bearings.

 

 

 

Well, to close this thread, I am sad to report that it is a case of oddity and my ears telling me everything correctly. I do have rod knock, though it is slight for a few seconds during a rev then goes away, so, the bearings should not be doing too much damage at this point, aaaaaaaaaaand, I also have a manifold leak when warm. Seems to be coming from the head/manifold area. It gets louder and more pronounced as it gets hotter, so, I was right on all accounts, yay me!!

I AM VERY surprised to find I have 185PSI average and the bearings are toast. I have looked at a lot of bearing swaps on youtube and they all show spalling of the bearings. Its never a even smooth wipe, but little pits of metal that seem to transfer to the crank. I even see the oil holes that have jagged metal around the hole. Seems like they dont have good enough oil preassure for the bearings but fine for the rings??? I might have to pop in a shim to increase the preassure, but, if it is an issue at idling, a shim isnt gonna help.

Well, just want to thank everyone for their help and putting up with my nerotic rants.

 

 

Hey free man, I have been twisting wrenches for a long time, and, like you say, it could be something else, hence why I came here as I dont know Hondas, yet. I only hear it (in the driveway anyways) as I am giving it gas, aka, loading the engine a little. As soon as it gets to an even rpm, it goes away. Even then, I have to work at it to get it to knock for me. I have to play with the throttle juuuuuust right to get that good ol solid knocking sound. There are a lot of videos on youtube showing the same thing and thats what made me go out and experiment, rather than just blasting the throttle open and closed. Its def there!

Also, like said, I have other issues like an exhaust leak, which explained the noises on decel that blended with the knocking that threw me off. I made love to the engine until it gave up all the sounds individually, or, enough for me to distinguish and seperate them. All together in harmony, they were throwing me off, lol.When you have a knock and exhause lek right on top of each other, only a foot away mixing together, your like "what the.....???".

 

 

I am gonna do one better. I am going to run some 5/10w-50 in it for the time being and change the bearings a little later down the road.

 

 

 

my f22b1 sounds like a sewing machine when I start it up in the morning

 

Freeman - I would agree that 5w30 is perfect for a "new" engine, but, when bearings get worn, its a whole diff ball game. The only thing to worry about is lube to the valvetrain. I would think that if an engine can handle 40w at the top end, 50 or 60 would not be pushing it too much. Only question is, do I want 5w quick push on startups and deal with 5w until it warms up to 50/60w or go with 10w and have the "cushion" there for the bearings at the get go? Maybe I will search for a chart that tells me at what temps a 5w gets to a 10w. Aound here, lowest is around 40f average for winter but fluctuates 40f/60f daily.

Restore would work GREAT for bearings, but, be abraisive on the oil pump and piston rings. Its better to just get my lazy butt under there and replace the bearings.

EVERYONE ELSE:

Thanks for the idea of piston slap, good to know they are a litttle prone to that, something to watch out for for sure if I go get another. Like said, my engine is quiet as a mouse, except for when you rev it gingerly and more so in one spot (specific rpm range). Other than that, you would not know it is there. Its so quiet at times you cant even hear the injectors. Sadly though, this happens even when it is nice and warmed up. I will probably ride it out through the winter and replace the bearings next spring, if not sooner.

Def appreciate all the help though, thanks.

 

 

 

Rotella T6 is my mainstay in my stroked 4.6 Grand Cherokee. I have read all kinds of goodies about that. You have to remember though, I do not, will not be racing this engine in the least. This car is just a commuter car.

For arguments purposes, I looked at the shop manual and it says from -10 (yes thats negative) up to 10f up to 90f 10w-30 and you can use 20w50 from +10 up. Of course this is the companys "allowable" and does not get as nitpicky as we do.

If you have any threads on this (remember, were talking about my 200k mile car, not a new one) please post them. I like to learn and would be interested in what the Honda crowd is running accross. Just remember, the info can NOT be antedotal or presumptuous, it has to be fact driven.

As a side nite, I went to this site https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/engine-oil/ and all the viscosity indexes are going down with heat. I need to reread, but, I thought oil "thickened up" the hotter it got? According to that chat, nope. So, do the long chains just "protect" better as it gets hotter while viscosity goes down? If so, then I will stay with 10w for now. It doesnt seem like it will hurt anything in a non revving engine. I could be totally wrong, but, I think the negative effects are from people that beat the s***t out of their engines using an oil like I want to go to. I dont think driving normal will hurt it.

Extra bonus side note.... It doesnt seem like the normal chains carry anything but 5w/10w-30/40 anyways. Odd............... I really want a 10w50. Can get a 10w-60 (really dont want a 60)for $14.99, but, dont think the engine is worth that, lol.

 

You may be overthinking it. My last Accord had 230k on it and I only used 5w-30 and I drove that car harder than I should have! Never had an actual issue with the engine either. It sounds like your car was not taken care of by the previous owners so I would obviously make sure you try your best to maintain it. If this noise persists / gets worse/ noticeable effects on your driving, I would pay $80 to have a shop take a look at it and they'll put your mind at ease.

 

Hey wuzagi , your probably right that I am over thinking it, but, not to sound arrogant, I know all the basic stuff. The only left to think about, for me, is things not thought about, on a whole.

My thinking is this..... Since the engine is worn beyond specs, what is the thickest Honda says you can run in a new car and step it up one notch, right? Well, for me, up to a point. If I didnt have a set point, I would say to just run gear oil . Hmmm....... Gear oil is too thick for startup, but, I wonder if they have a 10w-90 out there?

 

Owners manual states 5w-30 is best for all conditions; if temperature in your area does not drop below 20F than you can also use 10w-30. If your engine is already trashed than something as simple as changing the type of oil you use it not going to make a difference, and like others have said it is most likely going to cause more harm than good.