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Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Disclaimer: I am new to building Honda’s, but not new to working on cars. I do all my maintenance/modifications and love wrenching. please be easy on me if I don’t understand all the lingo at first. Been lurking for a while now...
Hello,
Looking for hands down, best bang for the buck swap for my d series 96 hatch. I have read many “swap option” threads and a couple engines stick out to me. Primarily the b18c1 or b18c5. Are these two the best choice for my goal listed below??? Who knows? Any others I should consider and why?
Goal: straight forward swap that won’t require turbo or further mods to have a sizable power increase. I would prefer to put in a bigger motor and run it stock for the most part if that makes any sense.
Best reputable place to buy from? Importers on eBay? If so any recommended sellers? I like the fact that with these sellers you can usually get damn near everything you need for the swap. Don’t want to hunt for hard to find bits and pieces if I don’t have to.
I will have more questions once people start chiming in...but let’s start with answering what I have asked thus far. I am willing to spend somewhere up to maybe 4K max...but keep in mind I don’t know what a full swap like this would cost a guy nowadays...and if I spend 4K it better be a damn nice setup!
thanks in advance for any advice you can provide!
Craig
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
c5. LSD transmission, far more stout than h/k transmissions, best gearing of any b trans (plus, lsd). c5 has 195hp, can handle being beat on, and swaps in without any chassis modifications. they're a blast to drive. (ask any type r owner why they've got to sleep in their R)
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Originally Posted by tony_2018
Before i answer can you tell me what makes a honda engine increase in power?
Welp, I did state that I was new to Honda’s, so not sure if your question is specific to Honda engines or any engine in general. If it’s specific to Honda’s I will probably not answer sufficiently to your liking??? Not sure where you are going with this but here goes nothing...my foot pressing the accelerator (assuming I have gas in my tank) “makes” a Honda engine increase it’s power output...seriously though, the rules I know of from other engines, is there’s no replacement for displacement. Obviously the more fuel/air mixture at the right ratio that an engine can breath efficiently also will produce more power. A lighter flywheel, rods etc will also increase output power. A nice crisp fall day when the outdoor ambient air is denser can also increase power output....am I on the right path? Oh, I also forgot that the more vinyl decals and crazy ground effects that you add to you Honda adds “power” exponentially! Am I worthy of a response now Tony?
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Originally Posted by eghatch9295
c5. LSD transmission, far more stout than h/k transmissions, best gearing of any b trans (plus, lsd). c5 has 195hp, can handle being beat on, and swaps in without any chassis modifications. they're a blast to drive. (ask any type r owner why they've got to sleep in their R)
eghatch,
Thanks for the advice...the c5 is very tempting as I don’t care to go crazy with tuning the crap outta something. I have no specific “task” for my build (Like drag racing or auto cross) just want a potent reliable build that is fun trolling around in on the weekends!
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Originally Posted by tony_2018
why not go for a f20c?
Was this sarcasm Tony ??? The OP is looking for an easy, cost effective swap without required tuning... the S2K engine fails ALL THREE of these requirements !!!
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Obviously the best bang for the buck swap would be a fully built, naturally aspirated D15. Oh, wait, that's the worst.
Here's a few pros and cons about B-series engines.
B20 (CRV) PROS: Cheap as hell, largest B series displacement, low RPM torque (such as it is in a Honda) CONS: No VTEC, low HP levels, FRM cylinders more difficult to rebuild.
B18b (LS) PROS: Arguably the cheapest, perhaps tying with the B20. 89mm stroke, decent TQ, though not as much as the B20. CONS: Same as B20 except it has better cylinder walls.
B16 (EM1/Si) PROS: VTEC. High revving. Costs more than B18b/B20, less than B18C1. CONS: Absolutely zero torque. Only gets slightly fun after 5000 RPM.
B18C1 (GSR) PROS: All around good engine. VTEC, high RPM power, can do a stock swap and still be under budget. CONS: Significantly more than B20 or B18, but for good reason. Less TQ because smaller bore and stroke than B20, smaller stroke than B18b.
B18C5 (Type R) PROS: It's a kickass engine. Factory performance and reliability. VTEC, high RPM power, bigass redline. CONS: Costs about as much as the GSR and the B16 combined. Won't be under budget.
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
B series transmissions:
B20/LS transmission: PROS: Cheapest. Long gears for highway driving. CONS: Long *** gears means it'll make your car slower than any other B-series transmission. No limited slip differential.
GSR transmission: PROS: All around good gearing. Good acceleration, decent on the highway. CONS: More expensive than an LS. No limited slip differential.
B16/Si transmission: PROS: Shortest gearset. Arguably the best acceleration. CONS: Highway driving is terrible. If you plan on being at 65+ mph for more than 5 minutes, its very annoying. As expensive as the GSR. No limited slip differential.
ITR transmission: PROS: Short gearset, very similar to B16. Great acceleration. Comes with factory limited slip differential CONS: Highway driving the same as B16. As with all Type R parts, you're paying a premium. Could probably buy 2 GSR transmissions for the same price.
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
For what it's worth, I think the GSR is the best all-around stock engine for a decent upgrade, and the GSR transmission the best for all-around daily driving.
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Originally Posted by DumpdEJ6
For what it's worth, I think the GSR is the best all-around stock engine for a decent upgrade, and the GSR transmission the best for all-around daily driving.
I agree here... best all around "B" series choice for the money.
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
H2B can't be beaten as far as bang for buck goes, if AC isn't of concern.
H23 or H22A along with a 98-01 ITR transmission, or even a 97- spec ITR or B16 transmission rips on the street. Bonus points if you can afford some head work like cams/valvetrain.
If you want to keep AC then either custom built B20VTEC or B18C5 (ITR) swap. Same Transmissions.
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Originally Posted by Chance EG
H2B can't be beaten as far as bang for buck goes, if AC isn't of concern.
H23 or H22A along with a 98-01 ITR transmission, or even a 97- spec ITR or B16 transmission rips on the street. Bonus points if you can afford some head work like cams/valvetrain.
If you want to keep AC then either custom built B20VTEC or B18C5 (ITR) swap. Same Transmissions.
Edit: Buy your engines from hmotorsonline.com
its possible to retain ac and powersteering. Couple yrs back a guy sold a 96-00 civic hatchback with ac and powersteering. Had pictures to prove it.
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
for under $4K, go with a JDM B18C with LSD transmission. If you look around, they can be had for about $3200 shipped. Add an aftermarket clutch (ACT, Exedy, Competition, etc) and you will need motor mount kit.
Re: Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
Originally Posted by tony_2018
Should it be something you should consider? Have you looked up what an H can do to see if it meets your goals of list?
not helping...you were not happy when I failed to ask “technical” question earlier in this forum about a spoiler...now I ask a technical question (imo) looking for advice from people that hopefully have experience and you seem to still have nothing worthwhile to ad...whatever...
Originally Posted by eghatch9295
then gsr or type r is where it's at. spend the extra coin on the 4.7 final drive itr transmission whichever you choose.
Thanks again eghatch for your input! I greatly appreciate it!
Originally Posted by tony_2018
why not go for a f20c?
Still not helping Tony....If I had all the answers (and time to spend hours on the Internet) then I wouldn’t have asked my original question to begin with...troll much?
Originally Posted by 09chaplak
Why not K swap it? Aren't there countless kits for every application now?
My son talks about K swap all the time...I need to research these a bit more to see what is all involved...any particular k swap you recommend and why?
Originally Posted by tony_2018
Why not H?
Why not offer solid advice if you have it???
Originally Posted by DumpdEJ6
Obviously the best bang for the buck swap would be a fully built, naturally aspirated D15. Oh, wait, that's the worst.
Here's a few pros and cons about B-series engines.
B20 (CRV) PROS: Cheap as hell, largest B series displacement, low RPM torque (such as it is in a Honda) CONS: No VTEC, low HP levels, FRM cylinders more difficult to rebuild.
B18b (LS) PROS: Arguably the cheapest, perhaps tying with the B20. 89mm stroke, decent TQ, though not as much as the B20. CONS: Same as B20 except it has better cylinder walls.
B16 (EM1/Si) PROS: VTEC. High revving. Costs more than B18b/B20, less than B18C1. CONS: Absolutely zero torque. Only gets slightly fun after 5000 RPM.
B18C1 (GSR) PROS: All around good engine. VTEC, high RPM power, can do a stock swap and still be under budget. CONS: Significantly more than B20 or B18, but for good reason. Less TQ because smaller bore and stroke than B20, smaller stroke than B18b.
B18C5 (Type R) PROS: It's a kickass engine. Factory performance and reliability. VTEC, high RPM power, bigass redline. CONS: Costs about as much as the GSR and the B16 combined. Won't be under budget.
Originally Posted by DumpdEJ6
B series transmissions:
B20/LS transmission: PROS: Cheapest. Long gears for highway driving. CONS: Long *** gears means it'll make your car slower than any other B-series transmission. No limited slip differential.
GSR transmission: PROS: All around good gearing. Good acceleration, decent on the highway. CONS: More expensive than an LS. No limited slip differential.
B16/Si transmission: PROS: Shortest gearset. Arguably the best acceleration. CONS: Highway driving is terrible. If you plan on being at 65+ mph for more than 5 minutes, its very annoying. As expensive as the GSR. No limited slip differential.
ITR transmission: PROS: Short gearset, very similar to B16. Great acceleration. Comes with factory limited slip differential CONS: Highway driving the same as B16. As with all Type R parts, you're paying a premium. Could probably buy 2 GSR transmissions for the same price.
Originally Posted by DumpdEJ6
For what it's worth, I think the GSR is the best all-around stock engine for a decent upgrade, and the GSR transmission the best for all-around daily driving.
dumpdeg6, thanks for all the time and input on this topic! You definitely have helped me out with what you have posted!
Originally Posted by Chance EG
H2B can't be beaten as far as bang for buck goes, if AC isn't of concern.
H23 or H22A along with a 98-01 ITR transmission, or even a 97- spec ITR or B16 transmission rips on the street. Bonus points if you can afford some head work like cams/valvetrain.
If you want to keep AC then either custom built B20VTEC or B18C5 (ITR) swap. Same Transmissions.
Edit: Buy your engines from hmotorsonline.com
Chance EG, thanks for the info...AC is desired, but could probably live without if need be for best performance...still need to think on the whole ac delete or not option.
Originally Posted by NVturbo
for under $4K, go with a JDM B18C with LSD transmission. If you look around, they can be had for about $3200 shipped. Add an aftermarket clutch (ACT, Exedy, Competition, etc) and you will need motor mount kit.
NVturbo, I am still figuring out all the different engine codes, is the one suggested here a JDM GSR engine, sorry in advance for my noobness!
Noob wondering best bang for the buck swap for my 96 hatch?
