EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
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EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I'm in the process of building a EG hatch civic with k24a2 motor. It's a w2w endurance track car that needs to survive continuous 8+ hours of race conditions with AER(American Endurance Racing), Champcar and WRL race series. Therefore, I'm not sure which transmission to use. I'm going to try and keep the car within the 2000 to 2300 lbs with full fluids, it will be a light car.
I'm thinking of using a Accord 5 speed trans due to easy availability and cheap plus with the light weight of the Civic and the torque of the K24 motor, the 5 speed would be a better fit as opposed to the 6 speed where I would run out of rpm sooner and requires more shifting. Also, it much more expensive to get the 6 speed too.
Now, with this info, what would you recommend and why?
Thank you.
I'm thinking of using a Accord 5 speed trans due to easy availability and cheap plus with the light weight of the Civic and the torque of the K24 motor, the 5 speed would be a better fit as opposed to the 6 speed where I would run out of rpm sooner and requires more shifting. Also, it much more expensive to get the 6 speed too.
Now, with this info, what would you recommend and why?
Thank you.
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From: West Allis, WI
re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I would always take the 6 speed over the 5 speed for a racing application. If you are worried about running out of revs look at finding one with the 4.39 FD to help extend the speed per gear. Or find one with LSD and swap out to the lower FD.
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re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
So the k series transmission 6 speed can take more abuse than the 5 speed? I think perhaps the TSX 6 speed has taller gears than the RSX?
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From: MD
re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I'm not familiar with power handling or longevity of either option but in theory the 6 speed will usually have better gearing at most points so you can keep the car in the appropriate rev range. That matters a lot on the B series engines with a narrow powerband but I would think a K24 would be more forgiving on that front.
You can get speed by gear for most K transmission options using info from this website:
https://k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6395
Plugged into this calculator:
Honda Transmission Calculator by ZealAutowerks
The 03-07 accord trans at a glance seems really widely spaced, with a higher final drive I think it would be fine, but stock you'd really only use 2nd and 3rd, maybe some 4th on a long straight. Randomly enough the Honda Element transmission looks like a good 5 speed option assuming it's cheap and compatible with your application (no earthly idea). Honestly might top out too low but that'd depend on a lot of things.
You can get speed by gear for most K transmission options using info from this website:
https://k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6395
Plugged into this calculator:
Honda Transmission Calculator by ZealAutowerks
The 03-07 accord trans at a glance seems really widely spaced, with a higher final drive I think it would be fine, but stock you'd really only use 2nd and 3rd, maybe some 4th on a long straight. Randomly enough the Honda Element transmission looks like a good 5 speed option assuming it's cheap and compatible with your application (no earthly idea). Honestly might top out too low but that'd depend on a lot of things.
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From: Albany, NY
re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
The problem you will have is gear failure, more specifically 4th will not live long. I would get some rsx six speeds and plan to swap the trans or keep 4th fresh every few races.
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From: Virginia, US
re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
Look into the 06-11 SI transmission. It has the factory diff and has good ratios for the K24 and readily available. You need to do a few things to it (repining the VSS plug, and swap out a shift selector if you want to use the RSX billet shifter etc). The TSX has a magnesium case that I would personally stay away from for endurance racing as they are prone to bearing failures because of the case flex.
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re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
Look into the 06-11 SI transmission. It has the factory diff and has good ratios for the K24 and readily available. You need to do a few things to it (repining the VSS plug, and swap out a shift selector if you want to use the RSX billet shifter etc). The TSX has a magnesium case that I would personally stay away from for endurance racing as they are prone to bearing failures because of the case flex.
Thanks for the recommendation. Do you or can you point me directions on how to re-pin the vss plug and how to swap the shaft selector? I'm new to the k series stuff and just starting to learning it.
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From: Virginia, US
re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
Sure thing, here is a link to the selector swap: https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=218905
Also I forgot to mention there are some companies that sell a vehicle speed sensor converter that you will need as well. You'll need one of those for the EG dash to interpret the speed sensor signal. 05 and later transmissions have a high speed signal. The EG dash (if your using it) needs the low speed signal. There is a ton of info on K20a.org that will help you through the process.
Also I forgot to mention there are some companies that sell a vehicle speed sensor converter that you will need as well. You'll need one of those for the EG dash to interpret the speed sensor signal. 05 and later transmissions have a high speed signal. The EG dash (if your using it) needs the low speed signal. There is a ton of info on K20a.org that will help you through the process.
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re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
Sure thing, here is a link to the selector swap: https://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=218905
Also I forgot to mention there are some companies that sell a vehicle speed sensor converter that you will need as well. You'll need one of those for the EG dash to interpret the speed sensor signal. 05 and later transmissions have a high speed signal. The EG dash (if your using it) needs the low speed signal. There is a ton of info on K20a.org that will help you through the process.
Also I forgot to mention there are some companies that sell a vehicle speed sensor converter that you will need as well. You'll need one of those for the EG dash to interpret the speed sensor signal. 05 and later transmissions have a high speed signal. The EG dash (if your using it) needs the low speed signal. There is a ton of info on K20a.org that will help you through the process.
As for the speed sensor, I wouldn't be needing it as I will be running a AiM dash unless the ecu needs it?
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I have a k20 EG I did a couple enduros with. I never have had any transmission issues and it has the RSX 6-speed I believe. Endurance racing is very much about running your calculated pace and being efficient. A 6-speed should be better for fuel management. We had to back the car off about 5 seconds a lap as the delta in tire/fuel/brakes use didn’t warrant the pace.
The issues i had thst you may face is :
CV joints/axels. I used gator and they worked well but still had a couple failures.
Driver fatigue- getting out of that buzzing tin can after 2-hour stints is surreal. It’s a very fatiguing car to drive
Managing the front tires.
fuel consumption- I found a 13 gallon tank (I think 13) vs the 10-gallon the car came with. Maybe you are running s fuel cell, don’t know. But if stock tank you can find a larger tank for your EG if it doesn’t have it. Annoying when you have a few gallons of fuel but the car starts to fuel starve in right turns.
The issues i had thst you may face is :
CV joints/axels. I used gator and they worked well but still had a couple failures.
Driver fatigue- getting out of that buzzing tin can after 2-hour stints is surreal. It’s a very fatiguing car to drive
Managing the front tires.
fuel consumption- I found a 13 gallon tank (I think 13) vs the 10-gallon the car came with. Maybe you are running s fuel cell, don’t know. But if stock tank you can find a larger tank for your EG if it doesn’t have it. Annoying when you have a few gallons of fuel but the car starts to fuel starve in right turns.
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I have a k20 EG I did a couple enduros with. I never have had any transmission issues and it has the RSX 6-speed I believe. Endurance racing is very much about running your calculated pace and being efficient. A 6-speed should be better for fuel management. We had to back the car off about 5 seconds a lap as the delta in tire/fuel/brakes use didn’t warrant the pace.
The issues i had thst you may face is :
CV joints/axels. I used gator and they worked well but still had a couple failures.
Driver fatigue- getting out of that buzzing tin can after 2-hour stints is surreal. It’s a very fatiguing car to drive
Managing the front tires.
The issues i had thst you may face is :
CV joints/axels. I used gator and they worked well but still had a couple failures.
Driver fatigue- getting out of that buzzing tin can after 2-hour stints is surreal. It’s a very fatiguing car to drive
Managing the front tires.
I raced a gen 1 crx for endure for few years and it was actually pretty durable. I did literally drove the wheels of that crx at njmp last year as the hub failed. Thank God I was on the outside going into the corner, otherwise, I would have taken out few cars. I also raced a s2k in the down pour this year at njmp and the car was pretty predictable. Awesome car.
I will have to worry about the axle/CV joint issue as I heard on the eg, it will over heat. How did you get around that problem?
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I was at first thinking of using the 5 speed due to cost but I guess it's just best to spend the money and get the 6 speed.
I raced a gen 1 crx for endure for few years and it was actually pretty durable. I did literally drove the wheels of that crx at njmp last year as the hub failed. Thank God I was on the outside going into the corner, otherwise, I would have taken out few cars. I also raced a s2k in the down pour this year at njmp and the car was pretty predictable. Awesome car.
I will have to worry about the axle/CV joint issue as I heard on the eg, it will over heat. How did you get around that problem?
I raced a gen 1 crx for endure for few years and it was actually pretty durable. I did literally drove the wheels of that crx at njmp last year as the hub failed. Thank God I was on the outside going into the corner, otherwise, I would have taken out few cars. I also raced a s2k in the down pour this year at njmp and the car was pretty predictable. Awesome car.
I will have to worry about the axle/CV joint issue as I heard on the eg, it will over heat. How did you get around that problem?
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From: Virginia, US
Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
Ok then yes you will need a VSS converter for the 02-04 PRB ECU/KproV4 to understand the high frequency speed signal from the 06-11 transmission. Lots of good information in the Hondata/K20A.org forums will help you with wiring things up, conversion harness etc. Also you will need the PRB ECU (Google Image search ftw) pinout to double-check all of your harness connections. Good luck with your build, feel free to PM me if you hit any snags.. its all fresh as I am at the tail end of the same swap.
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From: Virginia, US
Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
we used Gator Axels which use high temp grease and are vented. They did well. The times I did have failures it was running on banking and you could feel through the steering wheel the FWD car didn’t like banking. I also tried to fab up deflector vents to cool the hubs but have no evidence it made a difference. I was using the 2003 mini rotors with remanufactured ITR calipers. I prob could have made a better effort in dabbing up some cooling ducts.
Do you think that a bigger brake rotor would help dissipate heat better and cause less axel failures?
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I actually prefered the smaller rotor with wilwood calipers for the feel and weight but in sprint races during summer I got a super deep pedal after 20 min.
everybody around me were running the vented type fenders, that could help I would think.
no question the ITR caliper could handle a lot more than my wilwood set up
i always wondered about running windshield washer nozzles and pointing them at the hub. Don’t know if it’s been tried. .
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I already have the biggest set up avail for a 15 inch wheel with ITR caliper and the mini rotors.
I actually prefered the smaller rotor with wilwood calipers for the feel and weight but in sprint races during summer I got a super deep pedal after 20 min.
everybody around me were running the vented type fenders, that could help I would think.
no question the ITR caliper could handle a lot more than my wilwood set up
i always wondered about running windshield washer nozzles and pointing them at the hub. Don’t know if it’s been tried. .
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
sure....it’s no diff than spraying a turbo intercooler.....it becomes a matter of legality with the sanctioning club running the event.
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
Supposedly Gator is not owned by the same guy anymore, but I could be wrong. It's worth looking into. My friend bought a set recently (June of '18) and they didn't come with the gator stickers on the axles or the vented axle boots.
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
stay away from Insane Shaft cv's. We went through 4 of them on our enduro civic. No support after that. Would not respond to email/calls. Still have a brand new set in the box. Might be ok for drag racing.
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
I'll stay away from them for sure and go with Gator.
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Re: EG Hatch K24A2 swap for AER Class Endurance racing. What transmission?
Well damn that sucks. How long did each set last on average? I have a set that I was going to use for TA work. What engine/trans/chassis?
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