Im thinkin about stayin' all motor and i dont kn0 wha to do next to my 2001 Base Prelude. Im thinkin about the Type-S cams but i want a noticable difference. Should i go with the TYPE-S cams or lo0k into skunk 2's or even crower etc.?????



[Modified by Memo6453, 12:52 AM 11/13/2002]

 

Type-S is an incredibly mild upgrade. You can't even compare them to Skunk2's cams. Type-S is roughly = Crower Stage I. Skunk2's cams have higher lift than Crowers. Skunk2's cams are the most aggressive H22A cams available. You can't even mill the head or use a thinner headgasket apparently or you'll have clearance issues....from what I hear.

 

But my mechanic says that anything other the the Type-S might change the idle and it wont run as nice as a stock 'Lude. I dont want a pair of drag cams either which exact ones do u recommend? Thanx for the reply!

 

Crower Stage would be a better choice then...it's one of the more streetable cams out there.

 

If you want to stay emissions legal, get skunk2 stage 1, recently got CARB approval. I don't know if the crowers are CARB approved. Thats what i'm leaning for with my daily driver.

 

How much more Increase do u think the skunk's are over the type-s . And price is how much greater or less and will i need the springs for the skunk's as i do for the Type-s?

 

I've heard that the type-s cams are not compatible with the USDM head. It works for some and not for others. I'm not sure about the specifics.

 

Does anyone know (without a doubt) what the lift, duration specs are for Skunk 2 Stage 1 and Stage 2 cams ? Skunk has one set of specs, Nipponpower has another.

Skunk2 wouldn't confirm the specs on their website when asked.


[Modified by Mover, 10:01 PM 11/12/2002]

 

Anyone who buys Type S cams I must say is a complete idiot. I'm sorry if anyone out there bought/has them, but come on. You honestly cant feel the difference.

Their is no difference in lift, the Type S actually has LESS than then Type SH on the intake cam. The Type S only has barely more duration than the Type SH.

At the very least buy Crower/Skunk2 Stage 1's. At least you might feel a difference.

Whoever told someone that anything but the Type S cams would cause you idle toruble probably has a set of Type S cams he wants to sucker you into.

Get Crower Stage 2's with the stock idle lobes. I dont see why not.

 

To contrast a few points about the Type-S cams...

Lift:
According to all the sources that I've found the Type-S cams have 12.2mm intake and 11.2 exhaust. This equates to .480" intake and .440" exhaust. Now this equates to higher lift than Crower Stage 3 on the intake side and approx Crower stage 2 (turbo) on the exhaust side. Interestingly enough, the JUN camshaft shares the same lift on the intake cam and raises the exhaust cam .7mm.

Duration:
I've never been able to find the specs again (I had this one web page but could never find it when I was finally compiling it) for the Type-S camshafts, so I can't readily compare.

But if you look at the Skunk 2 stage 1 profile, it's quite insane esp if they're measuring it at .050" instead of 1mm. Since compare it against a Crower STAGE 3, it's actually more aggressive than the highest Crower has to offer. Then, stage 2 surpasses the .500" lift mark. In any case, I'll just link a conversation that I started on PO.com on this topic...

http://www.preludeonline.com/showthr...threadid=91651

 

The specs I have on the Type S cams are below:

Lift: Intake - .446" and Exhaust - .415"
Duration (@ .050): 224

 

That's straight off Crower's web site. The thing is the lift numbers are what I said they are according to all the information that I've read. The H22 "JDM Spec" from Crower, from what I see, MAY not accurately represent Type-S cams. But again, it's only what it seems. Crower measures at "gross lift w/ 1.55" and I'm not even really sure what that means. The Type-S specs are measured at 1mm of lift. JUN stayed with the same lift profile but increased duration. Crower can't be readily compared, nor can Skunk2 since they jump both from metric to standard and their e-mail responce time is GARBAGE. It's sorta sad that even with all the facts that we have we can't readily compare two different profiles since everyone's on a different standard.

 

Well I'm not moving to Europe just for the metric system, so we should be able to figure it out.

I just find it hard to believe that Honda would make the Type S cam so crazy compared to ALL other cams it makes. With your numbers ITR cams look like D15 spec.

Not to mention I helped build a Type S H22 (pistons, rods, cams and even some cam gears, and I/E of course) and the car was not all that much faster than stock and it couldn't rev any higher at all. Peaked around 7500 just like a stock H22.

 

I'm not quite sure why you're berating me regarding the numbers, it's solid fact that those are the lift numbers posted by Honda.

http://asia.vtec.net/beystock/honda/preludes/
http://www.g-speed.com/pbh/ae-honda-tech.html

That being said, when Crower measures their lift numbers they start measuring AFTER .050" which equates to approximately 1.27mm. So if you take the Honda numbers (12.2mm) for lift and then subtract .27mm you still have 11.93mm of lift or .470" of lift which is still higher than Crower's cams up to stage 2. This being said, I do not believe the numbers on Crower's web page accurately represent the Type-S camshaft. It is only "JDM-spec" which could mean any cam from from the JDM for the Prelude.

Then again, using this calculation with Crower's CTR numbers I come out with .442" lift on the intake cam using Honda specs vs .449" on Crower's page. That's quite a bit closer (.007") than the "JDM-spec" (.024") listed on Crower's web page. However, these are approximations since I'm not 100% sure of my conversions from standard to metric. Maybe Honda overstated their cam lift profiles, but I don't think they'd have a reason to do that especially by that much. Just take it with a grain of salt when looking at solely numbers.

I'm not quite sure why you expect such a different personality using some slightly different components from the Type-S. It's still an H22A w/ virtually the same head port, intake manifold, etc. Most non-machined N/A H22's will share the same qualities unless there's a radical difference in the components, which Type-S parts does not have.

That being said, my internally stock H22A4 engine w/ bolt ons (I/H/E) makes more power than a Type-S. Go figure... As per moving to Europe just to use the metric system, you should be using it here to a limited basis.

 

aboutt he skunk 2 #'s being crazy, i thought the same thing till i started doing some research...what i've been told is that the stage 1 on there site is act. the stage 2 specs, and the stage 2 spec's are act. the stage 3 specs...now go compare that to crower's spec's and it seems a lot closer

edit:what the stage 1 cam specs are? i dont know


[Modified by fastludeh22, 11:36 AM 11/13/2002]

 

yea i just got my skunk2 stage 2 cams they are

in. lift, .505 dur, 267
ex. lift, .465 dur, 274
right from the spc sheet . u have to ues there springs and retainers with stage 2. i iooked at type s & crower. spcs are way better on skunks. street and strip cams

 

I'd recommend that even if you do install the valve springs and retainers you pull off the rocker arms after around 500-1000 miles on the camshafts and check your rocker arms minimally. If possible do a compression check as well, since all the rumors that I've heard about the mytical .500" lift just keep saying that on an internally stock motor you can not run more than .500" lift.

 

for those of you thinking of going with crazy specs, don't forget to bump up your compression! If you don't you'll run into problems heh

 

oh ya and skunk2 says not to use oversized valves w/them...but i contacted them and on the h22 only you can run .5mm oversize w/stage 2 cams

 

obviously you did a bad job tuning and/or building that type s h22. my type s h22 (without rods, i dunno why you'd need that for the s setup) with a vafc put out 192 peak @ 6800 rpm cuz it was tuned more for midrange than high rpms. had we tuned it for peak or switched to obd1 or didnt have the lsd it would have hit 200, of that i'm sure. And the fact that it puts out 150 ft lbs of torque from 5500-6700 rpms i can guarantee you it does not feel like a stock h22.

and before you go calling people complete idiots, you should probably find out what the hell you're talking about. there was a time when type-s cams was the only upgrade available. are those people complete idiots? what about people who want oem reliability or find a good deal on them. are those people complete idiots?

 

I've got Skunk2 Stage 2 cams in my EG 2.2, and let me tell you... holy mother of Christ! they add amazing amounts of power. When VTEC hits, it's like a totally different ball game. You'll need to upgrade valve train also (ie. valve springs, and retainers) So expect to pay about $1K for everything. worth it though, IMO

 

got a dyno plot to show us?

 

Good to know. How about posting a dyno chart after .... it seems that there are so few charts available for the Skunk, Crower, Jun ... etc available.
Very few post.... wonder why


[Modified by Mover, 4:21 PM 11/14/2002]

 

sure. i am planing on puting it on a dyno any way. it will be a little wile i still have to get some head work done (port & polish) it will be on a 23vtec hybrid and the compression will be bumped to 12:1 with the help of je pistions.

 

What other specs are given on the cam card. Whats the LSA on those cams ?