94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
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94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
Bought a '94 DX CD7 for super cheap but it was a non-running F22B2 and automatic.
I have been reading the few swap threads on here, but I figured I would post my thread and what I have for the car and my goals.
I purchased a complete H22A4 running gear from a '97 Prelude that still has the good 5spd transmission connected to it, so I would like to swap both over and have it running and driving in stock form, just a nice daily.
Can I use the Prelude rear motor mount and bracket in the Accord? Or should I source a 5spd Accord bracket and mount for the rear of the H22A4?
Is the F22B2 front motor mount bracket the same regardless of transmission? I have read that I need the 5spd Accord mount for the front mount regardless because of height.
Which transmission mount should I be running? I'm assuming a 1994 Accord 5spd mount but will that mate to a H22A4 M2Y4 5spd?
That should get the motor / trans mounted, I did read about drilling the auto frame mount higher at the dimple and that seems easy enough.
As far as axles are concerned should I run the Prelude mid shaft that is bolted to the back of the motor with 5spd Prelude axles? Will those fit or do I need Accord specific axles? I can see the Auto ones are definitely different and the LH one is just a long 1pc design.
As far as wiring goes, being that my original F22B2 was non-vtec and also Automatic, would it be easier to replace the entire engine and ecm harness with an OBD1 5spd harness from say a 1994 CD7 EX? Would that be easier than deleting all the stuff for the Auto and the spare TCM computer?
If I swap harnesses, the F22B1 motors had an internal cap like the H22A4, should I then keep the H22A4's internal coil distributor or run my F22B2's external coil distributor and coil? I see alot of refrences to running the JDM H22A distributor, but no part number or TD-# that identifies it as the one I need. Would love to know which one works bestfor a H22A4 swap.
Speaking of computers, I have the H22A4's P5M OBD2 ECM but I know with the immobilizer it won't work. What would be the best ECM for my swap? Would a single cam EX F22B1 P0A computer run the H22A4? Or do I need different like p13 / p28 / chipped etc.?
MANY thanks to you guys here at HT, been lurking for years back when I had my EK
-V
I have been reading the few swap threads on here, but I figured I would post my thread and what I have for the car and my goals.
I purchased a complete H22A4 running gear from a '97 Prelude that still has the good 5spd transmission connected to it, so I would like to swap both over and have it running and driving in stock form, just a nice daily.
Can I use the Prelude rear motor mount and bracket in the Accord? Or should I source a 5spd Accord bracket and mount for the rear of the H22A4?
Is the F22B2 front motor mount bracket the same regardless of transmission? I have read that I need the 5spd Accord mount for the front mount regardless because of height.
Which transmission mount should I be running? I'm assuming a 1994 Accord 5spd mount but will that mate to a H22A4 M2Y4 5spd?
That should get the motor / trans mounted, I did read about drilling the auto frame mount higher at the dimple and that seems easy enough.
As far as axles are concerned should I run the Prelude mid shaft that is bolted to the back of the motor with 5spd Prelude axles? Will those fit or do I need Accord specific axles? I can see the Auto ones are definitely different and the LH one is just a long 1pc design.
As far as wiring goes, being that my original F22B2 was non-vtec and also Automatic, would it be easier to replace the entire engine and ecm harness with an OBD1 5spd harness from say a 1994 CD7 EX? Would that be easier than deleting all the stuff for the Auto and the spare TCM computer?
If I swap harnesses, the F22B1 motors had an internal cap like the H22A4, should I then keep the H22A4's internal coil distributor or run my F22B2's external coil distributor and coil? I see alot of refrences to running the JDM H22A distributor, but no part number or TD-# that identifies it as the one I need. Would love to know which one works bestfor a H22A4 swap.
Speaking of computers, I have the H22A4's P5M OBD2 ECM but I know with the immobilizer it won't work. What would be the best ECM for my swap? Would a single cam EX F22B1 P0A computer run the H22A4? Or do I need different like p13 / p28 / chipped etc.?
MANY thanks to you guys here at HT, been lurking for years back when I had my EK
-V
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Re: 94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
Lying the front mount brackets next to eachother the Prelude one looks shorter by 1" but thew same angle so I am going to try running both the front and rear Prelude Brackets with the Accord 5spd mounts.
The '92-96 Prelude motor mount I have yet to score but is touted to work. What clearancing does it need to fit my Accord?
Evidently the metal flap on the transmission mount is the only change so that should have the motor + trans mounted correctly in my CD7 I'm hoping.
Who makes OBD1 injectors that would be compatible with a stock H22A4 and OBD1 peak and hold resistor box wiring like my '94 has?
The '92-96 Prelude motor mount I have yet to score but is touted to work. What clearancing does it need to fit my Accord?
Evidently the metal flap on the transmission mount is the only change so that should have the motor + trans mounted correctly in my CD7 I'm hoping.
Who makes OBD1 injectors that would be compatible with a stock H22A4 and OBD1 peak and hold resistor box wiring like my '94 has?
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From: Maryland.
Re: 94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
Bought a '94 DX CD7 for super cheap but it was a non-running F22B2 and automatic.
I have been reading the few swap threads on here, but I figured I would post my thread and what I have for the car and my goals.
I purchased a complete H22A4 running gear from a '97 Prelude that still has the good 5spd transmission connected to it, so I would like to swap both over and have it running and driving in stock form, just a nice daily.
Can I use the Prelude rear motor mount and bracket in the Accord? Or should I source a 5spd Accord bracket and mount for the rear of the H22A4?
Yes you can. This is actually the ideal setup. The Prelude rear mount bracket will be smaller(and lighter) and the mount will be a regular engine mount, not the big bulky vacuum assisted auto mount the Accords came with.
Is the F22B2 front motor mount bracket the same regardless of transmission? I have read that I need the 5spd Accord mount for the front mount regardless because of height.
Yes. It's the same or it will work regardless. The front engine mount bolts to the engine, not the trans so the trans doesn't make a difference. I'm still using a poly filled auto Accord front mount and bracket on my 5 speed swapped 95.
Which transmission mount should I be running? I'm assuming a 1994 Accord 5spd mount but will that mate to a H22A4 M2Y4 5spd?
I don't believe the prelude mount will work but I could be wrong. I've never tried it. The mount for a manual Accord will be fine.
That should get the motor / trans mounted, I did read about drilling the auto frame mount higher at the dimple and that seems easy enough.
It is. The dimple is already there on the auto cars. Just make sure you drill as straight as possible or the bolt hole will be skewed and cause the mount to bind on that side.
As far as axles are concerned should I run the Prelude mid shaft that is bolted to the back of the motor with 5spd Prelude axles? Will those fit or do I need Accord specific axles? I can see the Auto ones are definitely different and the LH one is just a long 1pc design.
You will need the mid shaft. The passenger side Accord auto axle will work with the manual setup but not the drivers side. IIRC the 4g prelude axles are too short, and the 5g prelude axles are slightly too long for a 5g Accord. Either may cause binding under certain conditions. Optimally you want to get the mid shaft for a 90-97 Accord and use manual axles for a 94-97. The Prelude mid shaft is a slightly different design I think and has a male end on the drivers side whereas the Accord shaft has a female end on that side.
As far as wiring goes, being that my original F22B2 was non-vtec and also Automatic, would it be easier to replace the entire engine and ecm harness with an OBD1 5spd harness from say a 1994 CD7 EX? Would that be easier than deleting all the stuff for the Auto and the spare TCM computer?
Probably not. Easiest option for you would be to remove your current ECU and TCU, wire up VTEC, extend a few wires on your engine harness to fit the H, and install either an OBD1 P13(rare) or a chipped P28/equivalent mapped for an H22 from a reputable source.
If I swap harnesses, the F22B1 motors had an internal cap like the H22A4, should I then keep the H22A4's internal coil distributor or run my F22B2's external coil distributor and coil? I see alot of refrences to running the JDM H22A distributor, but no part number or TD-# that identifies it as the one I need. Would love to know which one works bestfor a H22A4 swap.
You want to get an OBD1 H series dizzy that matches the harness in the car for simplicity. You cannot use the F series SOHC dizzy on the H. So, since you're OBD1 and external coil you will want to source an OBD1 external coil H series dizzy on eBay or wherever. Keep your coil and wiring how it is. External coil is better than internal anyway.
Speaking of computers, I have the H22A4's P5M OBD2 ECM but I know with the immobilizer it won't work. What would be the best ECM for my swap? Would a single cam EX F22B1 P0A computer run the H22A4? Or do I need different like p13 / p28 / chipped etc.?
You will not be able to use the OBD2 ecu regardless as you will have to convert the engine to OBD1 to get it to work properly in your chassis. I answered the ECU question already above. If you decide to keep your IABs, you need to be sure you get an ECU capable of operating them which would be either an OBD1 P13 or a chipped ECU with IAB provisions installed. Contact Xenocron or Phearable and tell them what you need if you want a chipped ECU. Also, if you keep the IABs you will have to add the wiring for them as well.
MANY thanks to you guys here at HT, been lurking for years back when I had my EK
-V
I have been reading the few swap threads on here, but I figured I would post my thread and what I have for the car and my goals.
I purchased a complete H22A4 running gear from a '97 Prelude that still has the good 5spd transmission connected to it, so I would like to swap both over and have it running and driving in stock form, just a nice daily.
Can I use the Prelude rear motor mount and bracket in the Accord? Or should I source a 5spd Accord bracket and mount for the rear of the H22A4?
Yes you can. This is actually the ideal setup. The Prelude rear mount bracket will be smaller(and lighter) and the mount will be a regular engine mount, not the big bulky vacuum assisted auto mount the Accords came with.
Is the F22B2 front motor mount bracket the same regardless of transmission? I have read that I need the 5spd Accord mount for the front mount regardless because of height.
Yes. It's the same or it will work regardless. The front engine mount bolts to the engine, not the trans so the trans doesn't make a difference. I'm still using a poly filled auto Accord front mount and bracket on my 5 speed swapped 95.
Which transmission mount should I be running? I'm assuming a 1994 Accord 5spd mount but will that mate to a H22A4 M2Y4 5spd?
I don't believe the prelude mount will work but I could be wrong. I've never tried it. The mount for a manual Accord will be fine.
That should get the motor / trans mounted, I did read about drilling the auto frame mount higher at the dimple and that seems easy enough.
It is. The dimple is already there on the auto cars. Just make sure you drill as straight as possible or the bolt hole will be skewed and cause the mount to bind on that side.
As far as axles are concerned should I run the Prelude mid shaft that is bolted to the back of the motor with 5spd Prelude axles? Will those fit or do I need Accord specific axles? I can see the Auto ones are definitely different and the LH one is just a long 1pc design.
You will need the mid shaft. The passenger side Accord auto axle will work with the manual setup but not the drivers side. IIRC the 4g prelude axles are too short, and the 5g prelude axles are slightly too long for a 5g Accord. Either may cause binding under certain conditions. Optimally you want to get the mid shaft for a 90-97 Accord and use manual axles for a 94-97. The Prelude mid shaft is a slightly different design I think and has a male end on the drivers side whereas the Accord shaft has a female end on that side.
As far as wiring goes, being that my original F22B2 was non-vtec and also Automatic, would it be easier to replace the entire engine and ecm harness with an OBD1 5spd harness from say a 1994 CD7 EX? Would that be easier than deleting all the stuff for the Auto and the spare TCM computer?
Probably not. Easiest option for you would be to remove your current ECU and TCU, wire up VTEC, extend a few wires on your engine harness to fit the H, and install either an OBD1 P13(rare) or a chipped P28/equivalent mapped for an H22 from a reputable source.
If I swap harnesses, the F22B1 motors had an internal cap like the H22A4, should I then keep the H22A4's internal coil distributor or run my F22B2's external coil distributor and coil? I see alot of refrences to running the JDM H22A distributor, but no part number or TD-# that identifies it as the one I need. Would love to know which one works bestfor a H22A4 swap.
You want to get an OBD1 H series dizzy that matches the harness in the car for simplicity. You cannot use the F series SOHC dizzy on the H. So, since you're OBD1 and external coil you will want to source an OBD1 external coil H series dizzy on eBay or wherever. Keep your coil and wiring how it is. External coil is better than internal anyway.
Speaking of computers, I have the H22A4's P5M OBD2 ECM but I know with the immobilizer it won't work. What would be the best ECM for my swap? Would a single cam EX F22B1 P0A computer run the H22A4? Or do I need different like p13 / p28 / chipped etc.?
You will not be able to use the OBD2 ecu regardless as you will have to convert the engine to OBD1 to get it to work properly in your chassis. I answered the ECU question already above. If you decide to keep your IABs, you need to be sure you get an ECU capable of operating them which would be either an OBD1 P13 or a chipped ECU with IAB provisions installed. Contact Xenocron or Phearable and tell them what you need if you want a chipped ECU. Also, if you keep the IABs you will have to add the wiring for them as well.
MANY thanks to you guys here at HT, been lurking for years back when I had my EK
-V
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Re: 94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
Aradin,
Thank you for responding to my questions that really helps clear things up quite a bit!
For other readers / swappers I read a cool article about pinning the IAB's to your VTEC A4 wire and that will cause the IAB's to open at VTEC engagement and then you can avoid the A17 IAB wire and an expensive P72 or P13 ECM. If I retain the IAB's should I get the proper computer to run them or would this be ok? I am half debating removing them altogether...
Right on for helping with the axles, the only mid shaft I have is the one from the Prelude which has a two male ends, and I will source the Accord mid and LH axle which from looking it up online definitely must have a female end on the mid because the LH axle is Male / Male Product Detail
Is there a source for mid-shafts online or is that OEM only?
Which would be the proper OBD1 JDM H-series external coil dizzy to get? Is there a specific TD-XX or Honda OEM part number for it? When I search on eBay or elsewhere I get a zillion results and some look just like my stock F22 distributor.
Thanks again!
Thank you for responding to my questions that really helps clear things up quite a bit!
For other readers / swappers I read a cool article about pinning the IAB's to your VTEC A4 wire and that will cause the IAB's to open at VTEC engagement and then you can avoid the A17 IAB wire and an expensive P72 or P13 ECM. If I retain the IAB's should I get the proper computer to run them or would this be ok? I am half debating removing them altogether...
Right on for helping with the axles, the only mid shaft I have is the one from the Prelude which has a two male ends, and I will source the Accord mid and LH axle which from looking it up online definitely must have a female end on the mid because the LH axle is Male / Male Product Detail
Is there a source for mid-shafts online or is that OEM only?
Which would be the proper OBD1 JDM H-series external coil dizzy to get? Is there a specific TD-XX or Honda OEM part number for it? When I search on eBay or elsewhere I get a zillion results and some look just like my stock F22 distributor.
Thanks again!
Premium Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 188
From: Maryland.
Re: 94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
Aradin,
Thank you for responding to my questions that really helps clear things up quite a bit!
For other readers / swappers I read a cool article about pinning the IAB's to your VTEC A4 wire and that will cause the IAB's to open at VTEC engagement and then you can avoid the A17 IAB wire and an expensive P72 or P13 ECM. If I retain the IAB's should I get the proper computer to run them or would this be ok? I am half debating removing them altogether...
You can wire them together, yes. It's not ideal but it works. You will definitely feel a hard VTEC kick with a setup like that. For the record you don't have to run a P72 or P13 to use IABs. Any OBD1 Honda ECU can have the components added to control them via engine management software like Crome, Neptune, Hondata etc. My P06 has all kinds of stuff added to it that it didn't originally come with, including the parts needed to control IABs. If you order a chipped ecu from a reputable vendor they will likely be able to add the parts for little to no extra cost. You can remove them with a spacer which I have done on multiple setups. I noticed a loss of midrange when deleting them but some gains at the top end.
Right on for helping with the axles, the only mid shaft I have is the one from the Prelude which has a two male ends, and I will source the Accord mid and LH axle which from looking it up online definitely must have a female end on the mid because the LH axle is Male / Male Product Detail
Is there a source for mid-shafts online or is that OEM only?
Best place would be from a salvage yard either on eBay or local to you. They are called "intermediate shafts", "mid shafts", or sometimes "jack shafts". I bought one out of a CB7 with 250k on the odometer to use on my 95. Still going strong after 5+ years and lots of abuse. Wouldn't worry so much about mileage or it being used.
Which would be the proper OBD1 JDM H-series external coil dizzy to get? Is there a specific TD-XX or Honda OEM part number for it? When I search on eBay or elsewhere I get a zillion results and some look just like my stock F22 distributor.
TD61/TD61U link. Just verify your plugs match this dizzy and you will be good to go. You will not use or connect the crank sensor on the H22A4 as everything is contained in the dizzy for your setup.
Thanks again!
Thank you for responding to my questions that really helps clear things up quite a bit!
For other readers / swappers I read a cool article about pinning the IAB's to your VTEC A4 wire and that will cause the IAB's to open at VTEC engagement and then you can avoid the A17 IAB wire and an expensive P72 or P13 ECM. If I retain the IAB's should I get the proper computer to run them or would this be ok? I am half debating removing them altogether...
You can wire them together, yes. It's not ideal but it works. You will definitely feel a hard VTEC kick with a setup like that. For the record you don't have to run a P72 or P13 to use IABs. Any OBD1 Honda ECU can have the components added to control them via engine management software like Crome, Neptune, Hondata etc. My P06 has all kinds of stuff added to it that it didn't originally come with, including the parts needed to control IABs. If you order a chipped ecu from a reputable vendor they will likely be able to add the parts for little to no extra cost. You can remove them with a spacer which I have done on multiple setups. I noticed a loss of midrange when deleting them but some gains at the top end.
Right on for helping with the axles, the only mid shaft I have is the one from the Prelude which has a two male ends, and I will source the Accord mid and LH axle which from looking it up online definitely must have a female end on the mid because the LH axle is Male / Male Product Detail
Is there a source for mid-shafts online or is that OEM only?
Best place would be from a salvage yard either on eBay or local to you. They are called "intermediate shafts", "mid shafts", or sometimes "jack shafts". I bought one out of a CB7 with 250k on the odometer to use on my 95. Still going strong after 5+ years and lots of abuse. Wouldn't worry so much about mileage or it being used.
Which would be the proper OBD1 JDM H-series external coil dizzy to get? Is there a specific TD-XX or Honda OEM part number for it? When I search on eBay or elsewhere I get a zillion results and some look just like my stock F22 distributor.
TD61/TD61U link. Just verify your plugs match this dizzy and you will be good to go. You will not use or connect the crank sensor on the H22A4 as everything is contained in the dizzy for your setup.
Thanks again!
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Re: 94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
Aradin,
Once again you are awesome!
TD-61/61U looks like exactly what I need and should plug right into my factory harness. There's even a few other vendors on fleabay for around ~$60 shipped.
As far as the IAB's that is good to know other ECM's would work. I have even been debating removing them entirely which almost seems easier.
Would that make her too much of a dog down low if they are removed all together?
Once again you are awesome!
TD-61/61U looks like exactly what I need and should plug right into my factory harness. There's even a few other vendors on fleabay for around ~$60 shipped.
As far as the IAB's that is good to know other ECM's would work. I have even been debating removing them entirely which almost seems easier.
Would that make her too much of a dog down low if they are removed all together?
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Re: 94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
Thought I would post a little bit of an update:
After much pain in the rear and many parts, I did run and drive old "Bernadette"!
The car refuses to idle though, and black fuel fouls plugs quickly.
I can get it to idle by introducing a vacuum leak at the plenum but that is the only way.
From what I can check my TD-61U distributor seems to be right at 15*, I do for sure have the original H22A4 OBD2 injectors which ohm check right at 11.9-12 ohms each, resistor box is bypassed. TPS is spot on 5V ref voltage and .5 closed. Plugs/wires/cap/rotor all new NGK's. A6 and A11 were swapped for Civic ECM properly.
I had an eBay source add VTEC to a P06 ECM for me and make a H22 basemap chip for me. Could this be the problem? I already contacted him and he says he will send out a chip with "less fuel at idle".
I have tried resetting the ECM many times to no avail, new set of plugs, etc. I am at a loss on how to get this thing to run right because if I keep the RPMs up it will stay running and when running it seems to have good power.
After much pain in the rear and many parts, I did run and drive old "Bernadette"!
The car refuses to idle though, and black fuel fouls plugs quickly.
I can get it to idle by introducing a vacuum leak at the plenum but that is the only way.
From what I can check my TD-61U distributor seems to be right at 15*, I do for sure have the original H22A4 OBD2 injectors which ohm check right at 11.9-12 ohms each, resistor box is bypassed. TPS is spot on 5V ref voltage and .5 closed. Plugs/wires/cap/rotor all new NGK's. A6 and A11 were swapped for Civic ECM properly.
I had an eBay source add VTEC to a P06 ECM for me and make a H22 basemap chip for me. Could this be the problem? I already contacted him and he says he will send out a chip with "less fuel at idle".
I have tried resetting the ECM many times to no avail, new set of plugs, etc. I am at a loss on how to get this thing to run right because if I keep the RPMs up it will stay running and when running it seems to have good power.
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Re: 94 Accord DX H22A4 swap questions
I don't have a stock P13 to test with sadly.
Since the O2 sensor is now almost at the catalytic and not directly in the manifold tube close to the flange like the original F22 motor do you think it is not reading correctly? Maybe a bad O2?
Since the O2 sensor is now almost at the catalytic and not directly in the manifold tube close to the flange like the original F22 motor do you think it is not reading correctly? Maybe a bad O2?
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