N/A B16A SIR I
Hey guys, I got a B16 SIR I motor. Going all motor, want 180-200 whp. High compression possibly 12:1 or 11:5:1 But thinking the latter, because I may want boost in the future. Also high revving, I want this motor to see 9k plus, and of course still make power up there.
But anyways, do you think my mod list will achieve this CP ratio? Or power. And sustain the new power band? I'm real lenient on the 200.
Intake: Custom made 3"
Header: Dc sports 4-1
Exhaust: Buddy club spec 2 or possibly full 3" with test pipe and no muffler
Port and polish
.020 milled off head
balanced bottom end
2.0mm buddy club headgasket
H22 throttle body
^Intake manifold port matched to this
Nippon CTR Pistons
Blox valve spring and retainers
Now I think I'm running low on the CP side I only come up with 10:8 on the zeal calculator, but I barely know how to use it.
But please, chime in with any inputs, and kinda feeling like im missing something about the high revving part, please let me know if I am missing anything to make my motor accomplish this and reliably.
But anyways, do you think my mod list will achieve this CP ratio? Or power. And sustain the new power band? I'm real lenient on the 200.
Intake: Custom made 3"
Header: Dc sports 4-1
Exhaust: Buddy club spec 2 or possibly full 3" with test pipe and no muffler
Port and polish
.020 milled off head
balanced bottom end
2.0mm buddy club headgasket
H22 throttle body
^Intake manifold port matched to this
Nippon CTR Pistons
Blox valve spring and retainers
Now I think I'm running low on the CP side I only come up with 10:8 on the zeal calculator, but I barely know how to use it.
But please, chime in with any inputs, and kinda feeling like im missing something about the high revving part, please let me know if I am missing anything to make my motor accomplish this and reliably.
Real 180-200hp at wheels it's not the easiest task, imo. Even with B18C.
Engine is unity, cylinderhead and cams are one important factor because you have to get that little 399cc cylinder breath.
Engine is unity, cylinderhead and cams are one important factor because you have to get that little 399cc cylinder breath.
You have not mentioned a camshaft choice. You will not make 180 wheel HP on stock cams... nor will you be able to rev the engine safely to 9K on stock valvetrain. Second, why shave the head 20 thousandths to increase compression and then install a head gasket that adds 50 thousandths back to lower compression ??? The DC header is ok, but there are far better choices to make more HP available now... especially if your particular DC header doesn't have the 2.5" collector. You will need to rethink you plan... you will not attain your goals with your current parts selection.
You have not mentioned a camshaft choice. You will not make 180 wheel HP on stock cams... nor will you be able to rev the engine safely to 9K on stock valvetrain. Second, why shave the head 20 thousandths to increase compression and then install a head gasket that adds 50 thousandths back to lower compression ??? The DC header is ok, but there are far better choices to make more HP available now... especially if your particular DC header doesn't have the 2.5" collector. You will need to rethink you plan... you will not attain your goals with your current parts selection.
Sorry, my bad. I apparently wasn't thorough in analyzing your list. Blox springs and retainers should do the job. Correcting the gasket thickness increases the compression, and increases the possibility of piston-to-valve interference.
Be careful.
Be careful.
I have seen a few friends healthy running b16's with minimal bolt ons untuned run around 140-150 whp. To add 40-60 whp on a 1.6 na is difficult and not cheap. Your best cheapest route would likely net you around 15-25+ whp if your motor is healthy as it sits.
Cams, valve springs, lost motion assembly, intake manifold, headers, higher flowing injectors and a retune could probably do 20whp +/- . Getting higher cp pistons could net between 5-10 on a stock head, with a ported head & bigger vavles would probably get 10+/- on all of that...add a cop and you could be pretty high up there but all those parts and work would be like $4K+ and for around onky 180 whp is it really worth all that money? Only you can decide that.
Cams, valve springs, lost motion assembly, intake manifold, headers, higher flowing injectors and a retune could probably do 20whp +/- . Getting higher cp pistons could net between 5-10 on a stock head, with a ported head & bigger vavles would probably get 10+/- on all of that...add a cop and you could be pretty high up there but all those parts and work would be like $4K+ and for around onky 180 whp is it really worth all that money? Only you can decide that.
First off, lose the DC header for those power goals. There's an easy 5-7whp to be had with a better header. (I personally like the RMF design for 1.6-1.8L engines)
Anyway the "easiest", and I use that term lightly, way to meet your 180-200 whp power goals with a B16 would be as follows:
First order of business, airflow.
Get your head and intake manifold ported by a reputable company. After this is done, assemble it with the valvetrain components you mentioned and proper cam setup. I don't think any stock Honda cam is going to get you where you want, and I would probably go with like Skunk2 Pro1's or similar, maybe BC 3+. After you have your head sorted out you will want to boost the comp a bit to take advantage of the bigger cams. Don't worry about trying to find a piston that will meet both your all motor and potential future boosted goals. When your engine is at the machine shop for assembly also have them balance the entire assembly, this is always a good idea. As far as Pistons, I suggest you Get something that will give you a dynamic CR of around ~12:1. You didn't mention what type of fuel you will be running, so I will assume gasoline. A 255 LPG fuel pump will be plenty for this setup, and the RDX injector setup is also sufficient and fairly inexpensive if you know where to look. It is only after all of this is done that I would start to work on the bolt-on's. I suggest a different header than the DC as mentioned above, as there are more current header technologies out there these days that produce better numbers. After the header, try to keep things as free flowing as possible. Don't use crush bent tubing if possible, mandrel is the way to go. 2.5" will be fine, muffler selection is really up to your particular tastes for sound/looks. As far as building a custom intake, this is something I would do on the dyno if possible. Dial in the tune first, then do some pulls using different lengths of intake until you find the best for your setup which the dyno info will reflect. Tying into this is the final and possibly most important part of the equation; tuning. I have always been a fan of either Hondata or Neptune RTP. There are lots of others out there, especially for the budget minded enthusiast, but for max efficiency, controllability, and overall performance the only way you can do better than either of those two is with full stand alone EMS, which is complete over kill for your setup. Find a tuner that is well known and talk to them before purchasing anything tuning related. They will be able to give you the best advice and steer you in the best direction for your specific setup and goals. All in all, if you do the proper research and put in the effort you should meet your goals without fail.
I will leave you with the recipe for a very similar setup that I used for my original EM1 setup and made good power.
B16a2- 82mm 12:1 (static)
CNC ported B16 head
Cometic MLS gasket
Supertech valvetrain, stock valves, BuddyClub 3+ cams
Skunk2 Pro intake manifold
AEM V2 Cold air system
RMF Narrow header to 2.5" SS test pipe to 2.5" TruBenz SS exhaust and Spoon Sports muffler. (No cat, no resonator)
Walbro 255
RC 310cc
AEM fuel rail and FPR
S4C tranny with factory LSD
(4.4 Final) Autozone Axles
Exedy stage 1 clutch kit
Tuned on Hondata S300 in a P28, Innovate LC-1 wideband
Made 181/119 HP/TQ
VTEC was around 5800, and the engine made power until around 9200. (Will try to dig up some old dyno run files this afternoon)
This was only my 2nd real Honda build and my first ever B series build back then, so I still had a lot to learn but it was a very fun setup and put the smack down on a lot of other B16 powered cars. Even most B16 swapped hatches I ran into would fall victim to my "heavy" Si coupe with this setup. Good luck with the build and I hope you are as happy with yours as I was with mine back in the day! That setup and its go cart like handling and willingness to rev to the moon all day long was really what got me hooked into continuing to build/modify Hondas!
Anyway the "easiest", and I use that term lightly, way to meet your 180-200 whp power goals with a B16 would be as follows:
First order of business, airflow.
Get your head and intake manifold ported by a reputable company. After this is done, assemble it with the valvetrain components you mentioned and proper cam setup. I don't think any stock Honda cam is going to get you where you want, and I would probably go with like Skunk2 Pro1's or similar, maybe BC 3+. After you have your head sorted out you will want to boost the comp a bit to take advantage of the bigger cams. Don't worry about trying to find a piston that will meet both your all motor and potential future boosted goals. When your engine is at the machine shop for assembly also have them balance the entire assembly, this is always a good idea. As far as Pistons, I suggest you Get something that will give you a dynamic CR of around ~12:1. You didn't mention what type of fuel you will be running, so I will assume gasoline. A 255 LPG fuel pump will be plenty for this setup, and the RDX injector setup is also sufficient and fairly inexpensive if you know where to look. It is only after all of this is done that I would start to work on the bolt-on's. I suggest a different header than the DC as mentioned above, as there are more current header technologies out there these days that produce better numbers. After the header, try to keep things as free flowing as possible. Don't use crush bent tubing if possible, mandrel is the way to go. 2.5" will be fine, muffler selection is really up to your particular tastes for sound/looks. As far as building a custom intake, this is something I would do on the dyno if possible. Dial in the tune first, then do some pulls using different lengths of intake until you find the best for your setup which the dyno info will reflect. Tying into this is the final and possibly most important part of the equation; tuning. I have always been a fan of either Hondata or Neptune RTP. There are lots of others out there, especially for the budget minded enthusiast, but for max efficiency, controllability, and overall performance the only way you can do better than either of those two is with full stand alone EMS, which is complete over kill for your setup. Find a tuner that is well known and talk to them before purchasing anything tuning related. They will be able to give you the best advice and steer you in the best direction for your specific setup and goals. All in all, if you do the proper research and put in the effort you should meet your goals without fail.
I will leave you with the recipe for a very similar setup that I used for my original EM1 setup and made good power.
B16a2- 82mm 12:1 (static)
CNC ported B16 head
Cometic MLS gasket
Supertech valvetrain, stock valves, BuddyClub 3+ cams
Skunk2 Pro intake manifold
AEM V2 Cold air system
RMF Narrow header to 2.5" SS test pipe to 2.5" TruBenz SS exhaust and Spoon Sports muffler. (No cat, no resonator)
Walbro 255
RC 310cc
AEM fuel rail and FPR
S4C tranny with factory LSD
(4.4 Final) Autozone Axles
Exedy stage 1 clutch kit
Tuned on Hondata S300 in a P28, Innovate LC-1 wideband
Made 181/119 HP/TQ
VTEC was around 5800, and the engine made power until around 9200. (Will try to dig up some old dyno run files this afternoon)
This was only my 2nd real Honda build and my first ever B series build back then, so I still had a lot to learn but it was a very fun setup and put the smack down on a lot of other B16 powered cars. Even most B16 swapped hatches I ran into would fall victim to my "heavy" Si coupe with this setup. Good luck with the build and I hope you are as happy with yours as I was with mine back in the day! That setup and its go cart like handling and willingness to rev to the moon all day long was really what got me hooked into continuing to build/modify Hondas!
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