I have been looking at the wiper motor sections of the FSM for both the 92-95 civic and the 98-00 CRVand I can't say I can comprehend the symbolism. Possibly to only thinking about a motor as a two pin device.

Honda seems to have broken the wiper motors down into two parts or sections, below is the 92-95 Wiper motor section:



As can be seen by the "motor box" on the schematic it has 4 pins. And by following the schematic it's not obvious to anyone uninitiated to the motor as to what each piece is and how it works with one another.

The two pieces I am referencing can be seen here:


If anyone can explain this motor symbol and how the 4 pins work together, that would be a great help.

Thanks.

If I am being confusing, please ask and I will try and rephrase my confusion in hopes to be more clear.

 

I believe its for the speed of the wiper, pulse, etc..e.tc...

 

Thanks Tony but the two speed motor is the front wiper motor:


And as far as I know or understand it, the intermittent of the front wipers is controlled in the ICU of the circuit. It's also a 5 pin on the front motor. The diagram is about as clear as a Diode symbol is to someone who hasn't been taught how a diode works. Or better yet a transistor symbol to someone without electronics knowledge.

A standard DC motor typically only has two pins for each side of the winding and if you make it a shunted design, you still typically only have two pins even with the field shunt and/or series shunt.

So I'm guessing part of this is a switch of some sort?

I had originally assumed the wiper motion would be mechanically controlled for the back and forth but I suppose it could be electronically controlled by reversing polarity of the motor/voltage across the motor....

I really am not sure... Some insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

i recall someone actually adding rear wipers to there civic hatch, or the 96-00 hatch's also had rear wipers. God i wish i saved links back then...

 

yes, this is controlled by the same switch as the front windshield wipers.

97 98 99 00 01 Honda CRV Turn Signal Windshield Wiper Column Switch Assm | eBay

 

Thanks again Tony but sadly, that's not the same.

The wiper motor boxed off that I put the snippets to is totally seperate to the combination switch on the steering column.

Here is the full page that has the combination switch, the ICU and the wiper motors which I only put 3/4 of the page up previously.

The box I put the snippet is just the wiper motor and only the wiper motor, the front is a 5 pin, the back is a 4 pin.

Here is the full page:



The weird circle pie part of the 2 part motor diagram might be a rotational switch of some sort but it doesn't give any indication of how it works or what makes contact with what. All that is displayed is 3 leads, two of which connect to battery voltage, one through the combination switch, one direct. The third lead goes to ground.

I think the upper part of the motor diagram is the DC motor itself with either one or two windings depending on if it's a one or two speed (front or back).

If anyone can shed some light on what I'm thinking is a rotational switch in the motor that would be most helpful.

 

I think I found out what it is, and that would be the self parking cam switch.



Without ripping one apart, I'm not really sure why it needs 3 legs, 2 power (1 switched, 1 not).

I would think it would work well with just a power and a ground and a dead spot in the rotational switch.

Some help would be appreciated. Including telling me I'm on the total wrong path.

 

well, the motor has to swing the blade back and forth, so it has to reverse the polarity. my guess...

 

I think I may have found a possible break down of the self park cam switch:


When I was thinking the design would be more in line with:


There must be some advantage to the 3 pole cam switch over the 2 pole.

I suspect the Honda switch is more like the first diagram.

Another one for reference:


Some additional findings:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Serv...avel-contacts/

 

It is the contact to put the wiper blades in to "Park". ie., put them down to the bottom of the windscreen. Wipers can't just be turned "off" otherwise they would stop wherever they are currently on your windscreen after turning off the power.

 

Yeah, I understood the purpose.

I was struggling with the what makes contact with what. The FSM page doesn't show the switch operation.

However, the ETM actually shows the break down of that switch and it is much like the first diagram I posted in post 9.

Between the FSM diagram and the ETM pages, I deciphered how to redo the 4 pins of the CRV ICU to the rear wiper. At least on paper. I'll put it to the test sometime this month.

 

 

Right. It's cool to get lost in the details, I know I do it. But map pin location function to function on the two ICUs, and you'll come out smelling like roses.

 

Thanks RonJ, this is for the front wipers. I think you may be suggesting I could have gleaned the operation from that segment though. Didn't think of that. Thanks.

The rear wiper isn't in the ICU normally. The goal is to add it to an ICU by moving the 98-00 CRV ICU to the 92-95 civic.

Either way, Deschlong nailed it. I was getting wrapped up in the switch and the FSM doesn't really show the setup, just some symbol. Since I started with just the FSM pages I let that confuse me when all I needed to do was to move a few connections around.

In reality, I'm not sure why the switch needs two seperate 12 volt sources but by design it does or so it looks like in the FSM page. The ETM actually shows that one positive is to the motor and the other is to the switch, a bit different than the FSM schematic. Doesn't really matter though, like Deschlong said, it's just a matter of seperating both sides of one pin connection to different spots, and tying into two other wires so they all lead to 4 pins of the new ICU.

Of note, the ETM shows the design of the cam switch and it is almost exactly like the first figure I posted in post 9. I didn't notice this until after a day or two of google searching wiper rotational switches.

With the rear wiper, none of the pins run to the ICU on the 92-95.

I will say, without the ETM, finding where to move pins and tie into would have been more challenging as the FSM displays one line from Fuse 14 to go to both the motor and the wiper switch but in reality there is two separated pins on the connector from fuse 14, one for the motor, and one for the wiper switch. Schematically I know it's the same thing, but physically it's totally different.

Here is the rear wiper circuit for the 92-95 stock setup:



With this and the two FSM pages (one the 92-95 civic, the other the 98-00 CRV) it was pretty easy to decipher the movements needed.

 

Don't forget that the CRV ICU still requires a patch cable from the switch to the ICU, much like I made for my rear int. wiper retrofit DIY. Well you can wire it however you like but I liked the patch cable method.

 

The 92-95 and 96-00 Civic wiper circuits appear to be virtually identical. The 96-00 Civic ETM description that I posted gives you a gist of how the ICU controls the front wiper park function, though if you look carefully at the 96-00 Civic circuit diagram, the statement that the Blu/Wht wire supplies ground to the wiper motor is incorrect, which could cause confusion. The description also fails to mention the important Blu/Blk wire that is also needed for ICU control of the park function.

As you can see from your rear wiper circuit, the ICU is not absolutely required for the park function. I think the only reason that the front wiper's park function was designed to be controlled by the ICU is because the ICU also controls the intermittent function for the front wiper. In this case, I think it just made for a simpler circuit also to control the front park function with the ICU.

 

I think I know what you are talking about.

I found that Pin 3 of connector C430 (Column Wiper Switch) needs to be pulled and a new pin wire run from there to the ICU pin B10.

I was planning on depinning and folding and taping the original wire back onto itself so reverting would be easy if it ever needed to return to stock.

Or is it not just that easy as running a new wire and pin to connector C430?

 

I believe there is a new wire required, yes. But also look at the other existing wires, too. Don't be so sure that existing wires aren't used, either. On the CRV there are wires that run through the ICU before going to the switch, whereas on the Civic they run right to the switch. (LT GRN on the CRV to pin B7 on ICU, for example, which is the equivalent of GRN on the Civic to Pin J on the switch). A patch harness "interrupts" the plug at the switch, re-routes whichever wires which need to go through the ICU, and then reconnects them at the switch. There might only be 2-3 wires that do this, I forget the details, but a patch harness is much easier to do than tracking down and routing wires inside your wiring harness.

 

Oh I see what are talking about.

In my notes, I wrote C430 Pin 2, motor side of the wire goes to B6 while the switch side is unused.

At the time of writing that note I didn't realise C430 is the column switch connector.

Later in my notes I then wrote about B10 needing to be connected to pin 3 of that same connector (C430), and at that time was when I realized exactly what connector that was.

However, looking at the ETM, I can interrupt that wire from switch to motor (C430 pin 2) at the C415 connector on Pin 6. I'm already having to hit that connector for Pin 5.

And connector C415 is already on the left (drivers) kick panel so close to the fuse box as is C301 (for pin 20). The only long wiring job looks to be Pin 3 of the column C430 connector.

I know as brain dead as I was feeling the first few days of looking at all the pages, I am far from closed to the idea that I made a mistake somewhere. But I think it's correct.

The key I am thinking is being sure I do the correct side of the pin 5 of C415 as one side goes to the ICU (B7) while the other side needs to tie into Fuse 14 at either C556 or C440. Then again, I need to be sure I pin into the proper side of the connector for pin 6 of C415 so that it's the motor making connection to the ICU (B6). Until I pull the C415 connector, I'm not sure if there is an empty slot in it that I can take advantage of. If there isn't I will have to have one wire loose outside of the connector as pin 5 needs to become two separate pins going to different items.

At least with C301 Pin 20, it's just a T junction or simple tie in to run to ICU B9.

That's pretty much the plan I came up with.

I was thinking I would take photos as I went and do up the 98-00 ICU conversion DIY to complement your 97 DIY. I can only hope I write it up as nice as yours. I might copy the format if you don't mind.

Anyways, need to get back to pulling my wifes crank pulley bolt off for her water pump/timing belt job.

Cheers.