I am in the middle of a timing belt job putting everything back together.

I didn't check the orientation of the woodruff key when it came out.

It is a rectangular shape, but one side is slightly larger than the other side.

Questions is how to put it back in. Should the larger side be standing up and the shorter end contacting the bottom flat part of the pocket in the crankshahft or the other way around.

It appears that if I place the long end contacting the bottom flat of the crackshaft pocket, there is quite a bit of rotational play in the pulley and the shaft.

Just want to make sure it goes back in the right way before I tighten the bolt!

Thanks, Roger

 

Put it on the way that it fits the tightest , with as little play as possible, rotationally speaking. Large side down.

 

Oke, I tried both directions and the one with the large side down (against the bottom of the pocket) is pretty loose. I can rotate the pulley quite a bit ins that case.

This appears to be opposite of what you are saying? I would have thought too that putting the longest side down down have the least rotational play, but it doesn't...

Putting the large side vertical gives the most tight fit for me; it is actually pretty hard to get the pulley all they the way in that way.

So I should put the large side vertical then and the short side down in the bottom of the pocket?

Thanks, Roger

 

Can u take a pic of that woodruff key. I don't recall one side being larger when I did my 00 civic ex. Seems like mine was even on both ends.

 

Yes it's different. I ordered a new one from the Honda dealer and that one is the same as the one in the car. Both are rectangular, not square.

I will measure the size in the morning; 1am here now. Need to put this back together tomorrow so hope that someone knows by the time it is morning here.

Thanks! Roger

 

Take a picture....

 

Here is a picture (had to take it with my iPad and couldn't shrink it)



The size of the woodruff key is 3.67mm x 4.47mm x 10.87mm.

I was going to place it as the top view of the picture shows it: long side of 4.47mm vertical and short side of 3.67mm against the bottom of the pocket in the crankshaft.

Thanks, Roger

 

Yea stick it in there just like that. How u got it in the pic. I had to get a visual its been ahwile.

 

Pics of key in on the crank, in both alternate positions.

 

Here are three pictures:

1. Empty pocket,
2. Large side of key horizontal
3. Large side of key vertical.

I did see some old marks on the crankshaft belt gear which makes me to believe the key's large side should be vertical. Also, putting the large side of the key horizontal, the pulley slides on easily all the way with quite a bit of rotational play. Putting the large side vertical, I can not push the pulley on very easily and it doesn't go in all the way pushing on it by hand, but I'd assume the bolt with washer will take care of that once I tighten the bolt.

So I think it should go as in the third picture. If anyone can confirm that would be great as I am about to put things back together today.

Roger
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Empty slot




Large side of key horizontal. Easy slide on of pulley with a lot of rotational play.




Large side of key vertical. Hard to get pulley on, no rotational play.

 

I have always put them on large side parallel to the ground. I believe that is the way they come from the factory. It doesn't make any sense that it has MORE rotational play that way. I'm wondering whether your crankshaft and/or pulley are damaged...

My 2 cents: Whatever side give the least amount of rotational play.

 

The 2nd pic looks correct. Exactly like mine when I did it.

 

This one..

 

We are the original owner of the car. The last timing belt change was done at 95k miles (now at 221k miles) and it was done by the dealer back in 2004. Btw. the timing belt I took out looked pretty much like new, no cracks, but it appeared to have stretched a little compared to the new belt (I am using a Gates racing belt this time for 3x longer durability).

I don't think the pulley or the crankshaft is damaged. At least I don't see anything.

What I do remember is that there was no rotational play when I took the pulley off, but maybe that was just because it has been on there for so long.

Also, both the short facets have some "scratch" marks on them, the long facets don't, hence I think the long facets were put vertical (photo 3) as they don't touch anything when the pulley is fastened, but the top and bottom (short) facets do; they contact the bottom of the pocket in the crankshaft and the top of the pocket in the pulley.

The marks on the gear would also suggest the key was in with the long edge vertical.

I just tightened the bolt 60deg (got a new bolt; more on that later) and my timing marks lined up perfectly on the pulley and arrow on the lower timing cover.

Having also tried the key with the long edge down (horizontal), the pulley was very loose; it slides right on and has a lot of rotational play; I look at at the timing mark on the pulley and was able to move it quite a bit away (left and right) from the arrow on the lower timing cover.

So I choose to put it in with the long side vertical. Let's hope it's right.

Looks like the opinions here vary. I was hoping a few more people could chime in with their opinions. Or maybe someone who is doing his next timing belt job should pay attention and take a photo when he takes his pulley off.

Thanks, Roger
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Now I have another problem.

I went to go and adjust the tension on the timing belt and noticed the bolt of the tensioner is sticking past the hole in the lower timing belt cover. I can't even get a socket (14mm) on it from above the pulley.

What is going on here?? Might I not have installed the tensioner correctly?

Would hate to take my just tensioned pulley and lower timing cover off again!

Please HELP! Roger
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government, a persecution which has been going on since 1999.
For more information on the persecution against Falun Gong, please visit
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I have done my own timing belt using the Honda manual that u can download for free on the net. I went through the manual to Honda specs. It's been a while since I did it but if u go by the Honda manual it will tell u everything u need to know... I told u it was the second picture that's what it is the way the key goes in. Are u even going by a manual that tells u exactly how to do it. There is a specific procedure to this kinda not just jumping into it and doing it however.

 

The second picture is the correct one.

 

@wk9k: yes, I did not jump into this and I do have the shop manual for my car. I note that I followed the shop manual exactly. It tells you to make the following steps:

3. install timing belt
4. loosen and retighten the adjusting bolt to tension the timing belt
5. Install the lower and upper cover
6. Install the crankshaft pulley, then tighten the pulley bolt
7. Rotate the crankshaft pulley 5-6 turns counter clockwise so that the timing belt positions on the pulleys.
8. Adjust the timing belt tension
8.a set no.1 piston at TDC
8.b loosen the adjusting bolt (and this is where the problem is as you can't get a socket over the bolt since the lower timing cover is already back on the car.
8.c rotate crankshaft counter clockwise three teeth on the camshaft pulley
8.d tighten the adjusting bolt (33 ft-lbs)
8.e inspect timing marks and retorque the crankshaft pulley bolt.

So the problem is with the service manual. I watched a few videos online and these videos show that you should put the pulley on temporarily and then adjust the tension. In this way, the lower cover will not be in the way. Then after you are done, you take the pulley off again and put the lower timing cover back on and then the pulley again. Then there is no need to re-adjust the tensioner after the lower cover is on as you already did it earlier.

Thanks for your feedback though.
Roger
************************************************** ************
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************************************************** ************

 

When things like this happen, I always ask myself, why does this happen to me today. The thing I enlightened to putting the crankshaft pulley on and then having to pull it off again as I couldn't access the tensioner bolt is the following.

When I put the pulley back on, I put in a brand new key from the dealer per the image above (long side of the key vertical). After I took the pulley off again, I noticed that this key had "scratches" on the exact same surfaces as the original key and thus I can conclude that the original key was in in the same way as well. This position also gives the least amount of rotational play.

So with the negative of having to take the pulley and lower timing cover off a second time and wasting another half a day, the positive is that I now have peace of mind on how the woodruff should go in. The image in this post is correct (it was the third/last picture I posted in my original post; I think wk9k calls it the second picture).






Large side of key vertical. Hard to get pulley on, no rotational play.

So there it is, a day has gone by and I am almost right at were I started this morning. Now I need to tighten the pulley bolt by 60deg (after having tightened it to 20 lbs-ft firt), then install the accessory belts and run the engine for 3 minutes and tighten another 30deg. Note that this is a new pulley bolt that came from the dealer and has these instructions with it:

1. put oil in the right spots
2. tighten bolt to 145 lbs-ft
3. completely loosen the bolt
4. tighten bolt to 20 lbs-ft
5. put marks on the bolt and the pulley
6. tighten another 60deg
7. install accessory belts
7. run the engine for 3min
9. tighten by another 30deg for a total of 90deg.

I am about to continue with step 6. now....

Roger
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violations against Falun Gong supporters by the Chinese communist
government, a persecution which has been going on since 1999.
For more information on the persecution against Falun Gong, please visit
the Falun Dafa Information Center website which can be found at
www.faluninfo.net
************************************************** ************

 

To me this is not correct because there seems to be more room for the crank to spin left/right. But whatever, your ride.

 

<p>There's a rubber or plastic plug in the lower cover. &nbsp;Remove that plug. &nbsp;It exists specifically to give you access to the tensioner bolt. &nbsp;Part #2 in this diagram.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-tech.com-vbulletin/1031x534/80-ztv8diq_af05f650dd7268cfa944203eb662a4b31ba0f146.p ng" title="" /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And please cut the copy/paste stuff at the end of every post out. &nbsp;The signature function, found here, is where that belongs. &nbsp;Putting it in every post like that is spammy, which is bad form in a forum.</p>

 

Read my earlier posts in this thread. I tried out both orientations of the key in the pulley. This orientation (large side vertical) gave me the least amount of angular rotation (pretty much none).

Although it appears there is more room to the left and the right in this case, the pulley actually gets hold in place by friction at the top and the bottom which is not present in the other case (large side horizontal).

This is also in agreement wit the grabbing marks I saw on only two of the facets: the top and the bottom facet of the pocket.

Also, there were "left over" marks on the crankshaft gear that also indicate the long side vertical. Those marks were located too high for the short side to be vertical.

Maybe it doesn't matter at all in the end, but this will give you the most accurate timing mark setting on the crankshaft pulley.

Roger

 

<p>Woodruff keys are like, $2. &nbsp;Given the possibility for uncertainty, I would go to the dealership and get a new one if I were you, just to cover all of my bases.</p>

 

Yes, the rubber plastic plug I took it out already before I replaced the lower timing cover (it was hardened so I got a new one from the dealer). Unfortunately, taking that out didn't do much good as I still could not get a socket in the hole and onto the bolt as the bolts head was not exactly centered in the hole. So I redid the complete procedure, taking the pulley and timing cover off a second time, temporarily installing the pulley, then setting the tension.

I think I am good for now. Will do the accessory belts tomorrow morning. Hopefully no more surprises then....

Regarding my footer, sorry, I am new to this forum. Didn't know it can go in the signature. Will do so going forward. Do check out my humanitarian cause though

I normally don't use forums much, but in this case it has been a blessing with quick feedback.

Thank you all, Roger

 

I already did. I did put a new one in. And after taking the pulley of the second time, it had marks on the same facets as the original key, hence I believe the placement (long side vertical) was correct (unless the dealer did it wrong during the last timing belt replacement).

Roger