1998 Honda Civic EX D16Y8 stock, A/T, 148K

I am a dumbass, didn't follow Tomcat's advice (like I said I would) and now may face consequences for my action. Here's my headgasket thread: https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d...reads-3248309/
I got lazy and just slipped belt back on.. some what because I am burnt out between working two jobs and dicking with this car that has been a headache (and bank account) since purchase. Long story short I just slipped the timing belt on without going through correct procedure and during valve lash (manual rotated crank counter-clockwise) the belt jumped several teeth after a few revolutions. My guess is tensioner or spring broke but, I haven't had time to pull the lower timing cover off yet to inspect.

I put the cam back at TDC, crankshaft pulley marks are lined up. While doing so I put my thumb over the 1st cylinder spark plug hole and getting good suction towards BDC but, was tough to feel compression towards TDC. During the valve lash the motor spun (all spark plugs removed) easily and I didn't hear any abnormal noises. I guess the next step is to replace timing belt, tensioner, spring, water pump and hope valves/pistons aren't screwed. I apologize to all that gave me good advice which I foolishly didn't heed.
This was supposed to be a college car for my daughter that I paid for in cash and I could do upkeep (within my scope) on it for her. Unfortunately, I never bargained for the expense and experience a blown head gasket, timing kit would entail.

I've decided I am going to take a loan out to get her a used lower mileage '06 to '08 Mazda 3. I've owned two of them and they hold up really well. If the valves and/or pistons are damaged on this civic I have to make the decision to either repair, replace engine or part out. My plan if it can be affordably repaired is that i will use it as a daily driver.
All suggestions and comments appreciated.

 

If you never started the motor then its fine you wont bend a valve by letting the belt slip.

Line everything back up and reinstall the belt.

If this is your first time stop being lazy and do it right.

 

It is my first time and in part I got over anxious about getting it running again after the head gasket repair. Also, I was trying to avoid the extra expense of a timing belt kit (plus accessory belts) but, now know it's inevitable. I wouldn't usually label me as lazy but, on this one it could been seen as that. Thanks for your reply and i hope you're right.

 

When you say you jus slipped the belt back on does that mean you never even set any kind of tension? Because that would explain why it slipped (meaning the spring is probably fine).

 

Belt was slipped off under tension and slipped back on under tension. I never touched the tensioner and held tension with zip ties when it was off the cam gear as shown in this video (not mine):

 

 

Like I said before, the zip ties don't guarantee correct tension.

My local Honda Tech told me that he rarely replaces the tensioners on these Hondas because they are rarely bad.

More than likely, your tensioner and spring are fine and you just need to set your mechanical timing, and then do the tensioning procedure.

Since you haven't run the car, your valves and pistons should be just fine.

You are just getting ahead of yourself and pushing when exhausted.

You are nearly there, you just need to step back, take a breather, then go in do your mechanical timing, tension, then work valve lash.

After you do those things properly, you should have a pretty solid little car.

As an example, when I did my HG, I did my valve lash all wrong. When I had #1 tdc I also tried setting #4 lash as the piston was TDC but it was the wrong part of the cycle. Then moved to #3 and also tried to do #2 lash at the same time. So my lash was okay for #1 and #3 but #4 and #2 were horribly wrong, I drove the car sounding not so right (like seriously wrong) for a nice 3-5km circuit around my house. I had to let the car sit overnight and I redid the lash correctly and she's been running like the smoking champ she is for the last few months.

These cars are very tough and actually quite forgiving in most cases.

I wouldn't give up yet. I would just redo things properly and see if it works before giving up and buying another car for your daughter.

Personally, between the two, I've looked at the Mazda 3 service manual and the Honda is much easier to work on, no questions asked. Even the oil changes are so much easier on the Honda.

 

Sorry for the late reply and thank you to all responders.

Once again very good advice Tomcat. I ordered a timing kit that online: since I don't have record of when one was last done. I ordered one of these kits for another '98 Civic EX M/T that I owned a few years ago. I had a mechanic put it on and worked well for 20k miles when I sold it. The water pump was an Aisin, tensioner Koyo, and Contitech timing belt.

My son's friend has experience with older Honda's (owns a '99 SI w/B16) and said he'll help me with it.
He has an additional breaker bar and we will use this: (rented from O' Reilly's). I do like Honda's and as I mentioned the reason I thought it would be a good for my daughter is they are reliable and easier than most to work on. As far as the Mazda 3's I've owned I never had to do any engine work on them other than serpentine belt. However I wouldn't trust myself to do any major work on the 3 either.

 

The kit you got years ago sounded like a solid kit.

The kit you linked describes the pump being GMB, that will be the weak spot. I've not heard anything good about GMB water pumps.

When you get the kit if it's a GMB water pump I'd probably return it. But that is me.

This one maybe closer to what you got in the past:

 

I remember at the time when I ordered that previous kit that I was hoping for Aisin too and read on other forums about GMB being suspect. That kit you linked looks good and will save me a few beans.. I will pick up the accessory belts locally. Starting to feel more at ease and better about this. I will post results. Thank again.

 

Update:

Been a while since I posted and while posting here I was also simultaneously posting here: Possible Bent Valves? - Honda Civic Forum
Not that I don't trust or doubt answers here, just that at points I was getting very anxious and trying to get answers as quick as possible.

Within the post on the other forum I mentioned that I assumed the white-out mark I put on the timing belt when I first slipped it off (under tension) would always land on TDC every-time. I know now that I assumed wrong.
Long story short crank pulley marks always lined up with TDC and cam's "UP' mark at 12 0'clock position. Removed both timing belt covers and removed crankshaft pulley and notch on timing gear was at roughly 1 0'clock position (could not see oil pump arrow). As mentioned in the other forum's thread I put the crank pulley back on and started it up with timing belt covers off and only alternator hooked up. No more knocking noise and seems to be running good but, with what feels like a slight miss possibly due to ECU relearn or need of mechanical timing/distributor adjustment ?

Now that I know the knock was outside the engine I would like to run it more (as is on jack stands) to make sure it's not losing coolant (100% water at this point), oil completely stops burning off of engine, and be sure no water is mixing with oil. I feel so close to the finish line but also feel I need another set of eyes and ears with more experience than me to check it out. Once (if), I am confident the head-gasket is sealing properly I plan to order the timing belt kit . Sorry for any confusion created in my posts .. I wanted to make sure I could get running with old timing belt and tensioner before spending money on a new kit. I have been pretty confused myself in which steps to take along the way and along with inexperience is why this repair is taking so long. However, if it all works out in the end I will be satisfied and the experience gained will help me for future repairs. All suggestions, comments welcomed.

 

Turns out (after I checked oil filter hours later) there is a few ounces of water in oil filter. Could this be from water/coolant that seeped past the pistons prior to head gasket repair? I really hope it is. If you recall I previously described what appeared to be beads of water on the oil dipstick a few inches above the "full" mark. Checked the dipstick again after new oil change and it isn't beading up anymore.. not sure if it means a good sign or not? If need be I'll do another oil change to make sure and this time check the filter right away. According to this thread maybe not that uncommon: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/...ts-replacement

Just ordered this kit:
and front crank seal:

 

If you have water in the oil and you have run the car it will mix it enough to look like coffee with milk, known as milky coffee.

If it's fresh oil, then the oil will not be translucent, it will fog it to where you can't see through it.

I don't think I would have run the car without swapping the oil and oil filter if I had known I blew a head gasket to where water got into the oil.

I'm not really sure what your question is. I just read your posts and I'll admit, I'm a little brain dead at the moment from work but I'm not sure if you made your concern clear.

 

My post is kind of a cluster F so a little recap as to oil changes:
1) Replaced head gasket
2) With valve cover off, no oil filter in, oil drain plug removed: poured 2 to 3 quarts of oil over cam assembly including using a funnel to pour directly into oil returns.
3) Afterwards installed valve cover + oil drain plug and filter. Poured in 4 quarts of oil.
Ran engine a few times for total of 3 minutes, Checked dipstick noticed beads of water..
4) Drained oil, and removed filter. Noticed a few ounces of water in filter. Replaced filter and oil drain plug. Poured in 4 quarts of oil and ran engine a couple more minutes, Felt that tension belt too loose and re-tensioned, Not tensioning well and appears cam "UP" at 12 o'clock position no longer corresponds with TDC . Did not start car since.
5) Pulled number 1 spark plug, set to TDC and will not mess with again until timing belt kit arrives,
6) Pissed off, frustrated and beaten down but, not giving up.

Will I need this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/261896772031?lpid=82&chn=ps or similar to pull cam off and reset when doing timing belt? Also, any special tool needed to pull the timing sprocket off in case it's not correctly aligned?

As far as current oil there appears to be little to no water beading on oil-stick after last oil/filter change.. hope it's a good sign but, not sure.
There was clearly water beading before the 2nd oil/filter change.

 

No, you don't need any kind of special tools. The cam and crank both have a woodruff key that holds them in place. If you need to rotate them, just use a wrench and socket, and turn them.

 

I forgot to mention that i plan to remove the timing sprocket to replace the front crankshaft seal. Special tool needed for that? Any tips for removal and replacement. Also, do all d16y8 blocks have the oil pump arrow stamped on them. I looked previously when crank pulley was off but, couldn't find it. i was tempted to spray that area with brake cleaner but, didn't want to mess possibly screw something up by doing so.

 

Yes, you'll need a special tool for the crank.

AutoCraft Honda-Acura Crankshaft Pulley Holder AC3080: Advance Auto Parts

 

I borrowed one from O' Reilly's last week.. works well.

 

Questions concerning proper timing alignment:

Scenario question:
a, Engine at TDC,
b. timing gear (behind crankshaft pulley) mark is in line with oil pump arrow (stamped on block),
c, crankshaft pulley timing marks align with pointers on lower timing cover
d. cam gear "UP" mark is not at 12 o'clock position

Does this mean timing may have skipped a tooth/teeth?
How to get the cam gear "UP" mark back to 12 o'clock position and in line with the timing gear & crankshaft pulley marks?

 

UP doesn't have to be exactly at the 12 o'clock position, it just has to be up. TDC is determined by the pointers (lines) on the camgear relative to their respective alignment references.

 

In most of the DIY timing belt threads and videos I've reviewed describe when installing a new belt:

Make sure timing gear mark is aligned to pointer on block. Crankshaft pulley marks are aligned to pointers on lower timing cover. Cam gear's UP mark is at or very near 12 o'clock position and the two marks behind the cam gear are parallel/even to the cylinder head with valve cover off.

For almost the entire time I've been going through the timing belt retensioning process the UP mark would always land a noon position when crankshaft pulley mark aligned with pointers at TDC, However, the last time (yesterday) I tried to retension it I held my hand on the cam shaft gear while slowly turning the crankshaft counter clockwise. Held my knee on the socket wrench (crankshaft) for tension and tightened the tensioner bolt. After manually turning the crankshaft to TDC the cam's UP mark is now at the 10 or 11 o'clock position... crank pulley mark still at proper position, I don't plan to mess with it further until timing kit arrives.

 

So now that you've confirmed that the "up" isn't at 12 o'clock, are the two lines level with the head? Because as stated, that is what determines TDC for the camshaft.

 

I don't have the valve cover off presently and won't be working on it today. Though, that is good to know that those marks in back of the cam gear represent true TDC. I guess that is where I was getting confused because I wasn't paying attention to them after I put the valve cover back on to test run engine (very briefly).

I found an ASE certified mobile mechanic that will install the timing kit I ordered, remove and replace front crankshaft seal, install all three accessory belts, no warranty for $125 (labor only). I am tempted to use him because my lack of experience with getting the tension correct, possible timing gear adjustment. Most of the breakdown has been prepared by me.. timing covers off, A/C, steering pump belts removed, cruise control moved, crank pulley will be removed, engine on adjustable stand with wood under oil pan, and car on jack stands. Sound like a fair price?

 

You don't really have to have the cover off, you can see the mating surface enough to determine if it's aligned or not from the side view.

Disregard the difference of engine and just look at how the marks are supposed to be leveled (green to yellow).

(grabbed pic of google, if owner wants me to take this down please say so).

 

Did you ever fix this issue?

If it is leaking somewhere, like head gasket, it will still be leaking even with a new timing belt..

Good luck. and you can do it, if you follow these guys and the FSM