In a obvious "non-drag" application, assuming both are setup equally suspension wise, which one will handle better? Who have driven both and can share from your experience?

 

i dont have experience with an itr but i have had just about the same experience. I had a teg rs with a na built b18b, i totaled the car and put all of the parts into a 93 hatch, and the hatch is faster and handels better because there is about a 400lbs weight difference, the same thing should be for an itr

 

reason I'm asking is because as the ITR was built with handling and overall balance in mind while the EG is a econo box where the balance and geometry is not as good as the DC2 chassis. In the case where the EG is lighter i know its advantages are well, esp in the stright line, but its the cornering where im wondering.

 

*Cough* EG and DC2 = SAME chassis *Cough*

The Civic has a slightly shorter wheelbase which will make it rotate better however.

 

Weight has just as dramatic effect, if not more, on cornering as it does on acceleration, so the EG would definetely be quicker, given the same engine, chassis and suspension.

 

what about the fact that the EG with the b18cR have bout 150lb more in the front from swaping the motor?

 

That can be overcome with suspension setup. As Drew mentioned, the chassis are almost identical. The biggest diff is the weight - a hatch will weight less.

 

Cornering is acceleration, which is why weight effects both.

 

Corner geometry is the same on both cars. Having 150lbs extra in the front means nothing since that suspension/geometry is designed to carry the same load in the DC2.

The DC2 will be more stable because if its longer wheelbase but will have a propensity to understeer. The EG will be faster in a race enviornment because of the weight advantage as well as the shorter wheelbase. It will be looser and harder to drive but once you know how to handle it you will be in good shape. (Loose = Fast)

Drew - Who thinks a B18C5 powered 2nd gen CRX in the right hands would be absolutely devastating on track.

 

yes, there is a little bit of getting useto driving a hatch after driving a teg, most of the weight lost is in the rear, i have found that small things like the amount of gas that is in the tank affect the handling of the hatch, i never noticed the difference in the teg


[Modified by bikeboy80, 3:56 PM 11/4/2002]

 

The obvious answer is that the EG is going to be faster.

This does not necessarily mean that it's "better handling" though. It simply means that there's a better HP to weight ratio. The ITR chassis is stiffer from the factory. I would imagine this advantage is mostly lost once a good cage is installed in both cars.

What's left is weight and weight distribution. In the end, your own driving style might determine which is "better".

 

Not sure if you make a distinction between “handles better” and simply takes corners faster. Comparing a race prepped CRX (2000 lbs) with a stock Type R (2600 lbs ?), the handling of the Type R is better IMO. It just feels very good, solid and extremely predictable. Even though it is still stock and soft, you just feel everything the car is doing. It is also a lot easier to drive fast. Balance and rotation is just great on the ITR, partly because as a driver it feels as if it is much easier to control and make the car do what you want: tucking the nose, drift out wide, kick the tail out a little more here or there, etc.. You can do this with the crx too (with any car to a certain degree), but it’s not as user friendly and it’s harder to do it just as you want it, consistently. I think more of how a car behaves when I think of “handling”, not so much actual corner speed you could get if you had a data logger. No doubt a car 600 lbs lighter and on a stiffer suspension can go through a turn faster, but that’s because of weight and grip differences and not so much due to better handling or balance.

Either way it’s easy to say that a car that handles well must also be faster. But this works only when comparing the same cars with similar suspension with each other, but with just different setups. To put this to an extreme, a formula car with full rear and 0 front downforce might still corner faster than an ITR, but the ITR might be the better handling car. (This is all for the sake of continued conversation.)

edit: never mind, I'm already like three posts behind with this.


[Modified by Hracer, 4:06 PM 11/4/2002]

 

There are some chassis improvements on the itr:

 

once the cage is in I think the difference in stiffness would be undetectable.

and with that lighter = faster

there is NO completely correct answer though for what would handle "better"

 

cool pic!!
learn new things about my car all the time!

 

correct me if i am wrong, i think dc and eg have the same wheelbase which is 2570mm

 

please weigh a b18c5 r engine and a d16z sohc vtec....you will find the differences to be about 75 pounds with tranny.....so it is not a big deal!!

 

not all EG's come with d16z sohc vtec. cx is the lightest motor and comparing from that is 150lb

 

The CX engine really is not any lighter or smaller. The main difference between the two would probably be in the CX's scrawny intake manifold.

 

thank you chad, i was about to jump on that as well.. h22 is about 70lbs over that as well.. it still can be compensated for but does make a bit of a difference..

 

I'm pretty sure there is some additional reinforcement under the car behind the front seats. That graphic donesn't show it though.

 

I have alot of time in both setups , itr is very predictable ,consistant and easier to learn,the egitr feels faster but to me not as smooth and predictable, I am still learning my eg . World Challenge FOO eg vs. REALTIME itr ????

 

The EG actually has a slightly long wheel base than a integra DC....it's only couple tenths longer, still within the 102" range, something like that.

 

a d16z vs CX....ONLY DIFFERENCE VISUALLY is the punny intake manifold....hmm....6 pound difference....and the addition of vtec sensors

blocks are not heavier
heads are not heavier

why is that so hard to believe?? same internals....oh did you know that a 1.5 and 1.6 could swap pistons?? hmm....difference is the stroke!


so assuming this...why would a b series block be any heavier? especially a b16....afterall the pistons are the same size....yes there is a difference in weight....thicker walls etc...stronger crank....rods...you get the picture....NO WAY IN HELLION a b series is 150 lbs heavier....now the h22 yes...and it is bout 60-75 pounds heavierthan a b series...

late
chad
14

 

whoa, that post wasn't targeted at me was it? i already know the differences and was agreeing with you.. hmph..