I have a manual tensioner with my auto tensioner pully assem. With my f20b timing belt. I am about to tension my belt for the second time the last time i had tried the belt seemed to have walked off the cam gears and was begining to hit my balancer shaft pully. I still have no idea what caused this and was wondering what i should do differently this time. I was wondering also if someone has a good guideline on how tight the timing belt should be exactly?

 

So you are using the auto-tensioner or the manual tensioner you cannot use both?
Here is a video of KS Tuned installing their manual tensioner along with the timing belt. Skip to around 2:20 and watch if form there. Hope this helps:

 

I made my own manual tensioner same style as the kstuned one.

 

Oh okay well then just follow what they do in the video and your set to go.

 

You can only tighten the arm so much before it puts enough stress in the bearing to push the alignment off.

 

I have never used the KS manual tensioner always used H23A1/F22 manual tensioners. However recently just used one of the KS manual tensioner kits on my turbo build h23v dc2. I first installed it with at the time seemed to be OEM slack on the belt. Initially right after doing it belt did seem little off to the driver side. I figured it may sort its self out.

I had put the motor in the car fired it up a few times. Had given it more thought. Took valve cover off and was roughly same spot over towards the driver side and inline with the edge of the cam gears (not over).
I could probably of gotten away with it. But I am a perfectionist.

Reason the belt is over towards the driver side more. 1) you have tensioned the belt too tight... back it off and redo it and watch Kaizen Speeds videos on to properly tension. 2) The main bolt in the center of the pulley is no longer used. What that does is causes the pulley to minutly sag/tilt. Which may cause the walk off of the belt. What seems to be a solution? Kaizen Speeds walk blocker they just came out with... presses into the outside pulley which stops the belt from walking off. So with agressive cams can slightly do tension a little tighter. I decided to install this and it has seemed to cure my issue. Belt seems fine on the cam gears.

Food for thought not in all cases but in mine. The larger center 11mm tensioner bolt that is no longer used... can have been threaded too far from the factory. Which may of gotten into the coolant passage. I had the bolt in there from the begining. Went to take it out and sure enough coolant was dribbling out. I ended up using this bolt does no harm. I just cut the threads off at the end for additional clearance in the car. Installed it with teflon tape/liquid to seal.

This kit is easier then the H23/F22 manual tensioner to do the timing belt... piece of cake. I do recommend it and would recommend everyone to get the walk blocker with it. Just insurance incase worse seems to happen.

Edit: Correct this was without the balance shaft and with delete. Correct bolt is used with shafts in...

 

not only that, the entire auto tensioner is a junk execution as it is. It mounts into the water pump

Anyways, to the OP, your belt is most likely walking because A) it's too tight (should be able to rotate it 90* on the long end) or B) the auto tensioner relies on the surface of the pulley being 100% level. So any one of the mount bolts being ever so bent from removal, the water pump if you replaced it being not completely level to the block, etc..

I had a belt that was too tight then when I finally figured that part out and loosened it, it continued to walk, albeit less so, until I scrapped the whole auto tensioner and went h23 manual. Works fine now.

 

Walk blocker would of solved your issue... the only downside as stated is the tilt/sag without the walk blocker. With it... your good to go and shouldn't have an issue ever.

 

First of all, what are you talking about why wouldn't the main bolt be used? It is for the balance shaft pulley. Using the KS Manual Tensioner does not require a balance shaft delete. KS just does that because they run their delete kits. The main bolt can't cause it to sag or tilt because it would do that with an auto tensioner too, ie, then everyones belts would walk.

Secondly, neither does the KS Walk Stopper. If you were inclined to use the walk stopper, you can still use your balance shaft. I did. However without getting further into it, let me just say the Walk Stopper may not be a solution to fixing an actual walking issue. The 90* corner created by the stopper mounting to the pulley, with enough lateral stress on the belt (ie walking) would cause the belt to shred.

PS- I actually noticed when I did my timing belt that the long bolt in the back of the motor of the driverside engine mount (the bolt that faces most toward the back of the car), once removed was very, very lightly dribbling oil. A drip a day or less. Problem is, this bolt was also stripped of the threads that were in the block. (Thanks for weak block threads, Honda!).

There's no way to tap that or helicoil, etc without an engine removal, I found. The clearance is just too tight. Are you planning on fixing yours, and if so, how?

Having taken a look at a friends H22, there is an oil passage directly behind the long engine mount bolt, so it's very likely my bolt did break the plane. Just dunno how to fix it. For now, I left the bolt in the mount into the block, since it can't back itself from there.

 

I did try the walk stopper. Walk Stopper is not a solution for a walking belt. Its a failsafe to keep a belt from jumping the tensioner pulley and causing havoc.

What exactly do you think will happen to a timing belt when it starts rubbing consistently against the 90 degree angle of the walk stopper wall? That's how I know.

 

Edit: Correct this was without the balance shaft and with delete. Correct bolt is used with shafts in... Correct you may not be able to use the walk blocker with using the shafts. I would check with Kaizen Speed. There may be a slight chance with the gap from pulley to pulley to do so... dunno never tried.

Which bolt below are you referring to? Main large 11m one goes into the pulley?
Or the back side one?... I personally didn't notice any oil coming from that bolt upon removal... I also did not put that bolt back it as well.

 

To answer question if there was an issue how would I fix it:

below would be it... grind shoulder off and teflon liquid it.

 

KS initially told me the balance shaft wouldn't work with the walk stopper, but I ended up using a single washer to space the pulleys. So it worked fine, but the issue I ran in to was that the lateral pressure the belt was exerting on the Walk Stopper wall was shredding the belt. Once I switched to the h23 manual, the belt has been fine ever since. KS took care of a refund and I spoke with Shawn. Don't know if my case was the exception but if you have walking issues, I wouldn't say the Walk Stopper is what will fix it unilaterally. If its walking, its for a reason that should be fixed.

Ok I was referring initially to the main large bolt that runs through the center of the pulleys (as that was what you had originally said). I'd imagine most people don't have the KS delete kit is why I said that.

 

Thank you all for the great and useful information i believe the problem was too much tension. I cant be too sure because i switched all the problem bolts with the ones on my spare parts lude. You guys are awesome

 

ah ok. Yeah my bolt that I had trace amounts of oil leaking from was the long bolt that goes through the engine mount into the block. In your picture a couple posts above, you can't see it as it is directly above the arm pivot bolt (#19 in a Honda diagram). But my "fix" was to put the bolt back in and use RTV around the missing threads as a seal, and as support for the engine mount.

Why wouldn't you just leave the bolt you have pictured here completely off the tensioner arm? Rather than grind it down, forget about it? Its only purpose with an auto tensioner really is to keep the arm from going too far forward or back with the auto adjustment and also to lock the tensioner arm, two things that you don't need to worry about with the KS manual tensioner.

Glad you got it fixed man. Just keep a sharp eye on the belt, maybe leave the upper timing cover off for a month. If it starts to walk again or rub, it'll eat your belt inside of 500 miles unless you catch it first.

 

I posted the pictured of the bolt thought that was the one was your issue. It isn't the one your talking about, your talking bout one of the engine bracket bolts. Correct the pictured bolt is not used. Middle pulley large 11mm bolt I had to reuse because in the rare case the hole was not a blind hole and coolant came out. Teflon'd it and kept it, cut the end threads so it could be shorter. No I never re installed the bolt pictured above.

 

Yeah my bolt that I thought breached the oil passage, that is the long engine mount bracket bolt. 3 of those 4 bracket bolts are same size, this one is the long one, and it stripped the engine threads to boot. So idk how I'm gonna fix that without risking a breach. Not feeling any additional vibration so it might be ok.

As for the center balance shaft bolt, I wouldn't expect Honda actually designed engines holes like that. The KS guys didn't use the 11mm bolt at all so idk.

Did u say you're currently using the Walk Stopper? Didn't see it pictured

 

I think I know which bolt your talking bout. I had this one stripped/gubbered on my last engine H23AV Blue Top Crx Turbo Fully Built... helicoiled it. Maybe its a factory fubar on some motors.

As far as the center pulley/shaft large 11mm bolt yes its not common. KS also said this issue with the threads going too far from factory causing a leak into coolant passage. They seen one block like this. Finding a 11mm bolt was the nightmare. So I just used the factory bolt since it touches really nothing in there... just to plug the coolant leakage issue. My other H23AV BT block might of had this issue don't remember because I used the H23A1 manual tensioner which uses the bolt obvi.

Correct no one uses the 11mm bolt because it touches nothing... if you don't have the balance shafts.

Yes I had the issue with the belt a little too far over on the driver side so I purchased the walk blocker. It is not in the picture. I took that before I took it apart for the final time in the car. That was fun... but not killer.

When I did the belt with the engine in the kitchen... put whole motor together in it fully built turbo motor... right off the bat belt was off. Fired engine. Same position. Walk blocker installed right off the bat the belt was fine. So I do not see it ever bein an issue other then initially and right off the bat.

Food for thought I had a few auto tensioners around I didn't exam too much before giving to a friend but think there are tiny difference in quality possibly from obd2 to obd1 but there physically same.