I thought that racers on this board might like to be among the first to hear about a new concept on which I have been collaborating with several other racers. We all want to run current, touring-type cars on a sensible budget and have come to the conclusion that the only way to make this possible is to promote the creation of new classes at the regional level - much like ECHC has done.

Dubbed "Touring Lite" (or TL), the newest class complements the IT2 concept that we have been playing with for the last year. The idea is to create two classes that form rungs of a ladder from an appropriate entry level to professional touring car series like World Challenge Touring. IT2 and TL are proposed as options for regional racing organizations (primarily SCCA regions) in which member interest exists or might be developed, and neither is intended to replace existing SCCA club classes. They just represent our best thinking about how one piece of the future of amateur road racing might look.

ECHC fans should note that IT2 Hondas are eligible for that series (minus the allowed .040 overbore) and that Touring Lite is a natural extension of the current ECHC rules. To learn more and see the rules for TL, take a look at...

http://2litre.itgo.com/touringlite.htm

A huge thanks to Greg Amy for kicking the TL idea into life and for all of his hard work on the rules, and to Daniel Beeson for the creativity and imagery talents, applied to both the IT2 and TL concept illustrations.

If you are interested in this idea, spread the word and - please - feel more than welcome to provide feedback. Happy off-season!

Kirk

kirk.knestis@evaluand.com

 

Money?

 

Kirk~ sounds like the idea has a lot of merit. Good luck w/ pursuing it.

now, for the smart *** comments:

1. that car looks a bit too slammed to be real race car; good for the NOPI show though...

2. "Tastes great."
"Less filling."

Casey, who just can't help himself this Monday morning...

 

...But still nowhere for my 2000 Si to race besides ECHC. Not old enough for IT2, and rough to find 14" wheels to fit over Si brakes anyway. Too much stock HP for TL(and too much $$$). Guess I'll have to keep using the Si for autox and commuting, and keep browsing the classifieds for a race car (or potential race car).

 

Yeah - I'm afraid Dan Beeson (the illustrator) won't make it though the tech shed!

Geezer - I'm sympathetic to your situation with the Si but there might be hope. There are conversations afoot about extending the TL concept to cars over 150 stock HP, as a "D Production for the New Millenium". Two guys are running the DOHC 240sx in the Northwest and are facing the same problem you are. Watch this space for developments there.

Kirk

 

Have you looked at NASA Pro-Compact or Atlantic Coast Touring Car? Seems like a very similar concept

 

Kirk

I'm old enough to remember watching SCCA A Production 'vettes and Cobras race, and B Production 'Vettes and GT350s, some driven to and from the track. I spent many days with the 1966 Shelby catalog, planning mods (that never materialized) for my Mustang. It's sad to look at the Runnoff records and see A Prod end in 1978, B Prod in 1980, C Prod in '82, and D Prod in '83.

I guess growing up in the high horsepower era makes it hard for me to understand why a car with 160 stock HP is considered too powerful to fit anywhere in the existing class structure except SSC. What must it be like for the guys with Integra GS-Rs and IT-Rs, or with Subie WRXs?

I've been following your IT2 proposals on the IT site, and the "D Production for the new millenium" is a good progression to the big bucks classes, but building an Si to Touring Lite rules would be an expensive proposition for an entry level racer. Somewhere in IT2 would be nice, but I don't expect that will happen.

I bought the SI to autox and didn't consider whether I could race it, so that's my bad. That's why I'm keeping my eye out for something that fits several sanctioning bodies, an 88-91 CRX Si for example.

But a lot of new enthusists who drive the hot compacts are going to wonder why they have to step down to older, slower cars to go racing.


[Modified by Geezer, 10:11 AM 11/4/2002]

 

Pro Compact/USTCC is one fairly large step upward in terms of modifications and engine displacement. Touring Lite would slot in nicely right below it. I have frankly tried to find into on the ACTC series since we moved to Virginia but have failed somehow - any leads would be appreciated. Does the Atlantic series run to the same rules as the USTCC?

Kirk

 

[QUOTEI guess growing up in the high horsepower era makes it hard for me to understand why a car with 160 stock HP is considered too powerful to fit anywhere in the existing class structure except SSC. What must it be like for the guys with Integra GS-Rs and IT-Rs, [/QUOTE]

I have a suggestion, but you probably know what it will be

Those guys I can't help.

--Rice, who thinks Jerry's car could make a fine H3 car given enough lightweighting...

 

USTCC engines remain completely stock, with minimum weights and now restrictors to level the power output somewhat.
I have done a good amount of research on Pro-Compact and ACTC also, but info out there is few and far between. From what I gather, ACTC and PCTC did not catch on, (IMO in no small part due to the rediculous minimum weights....example 3600lbs for the wrx) and will not continue.
Pro-compact is supposedly replacing them with better rules suited for regional and semi-pro/club level competition. But still based on USTCC rules, so it should be a feeder class to USTCC.
The ACTC rules are still on the USTCC site if you want to look at them to get an idea of what they were shooting for.

 

I still think USTCC rules are quite stupid... Can't even put a flywheel on the car, but you can put carbon panels and cut out sheetmetal in the chassis...

for ECHC and the excellent rules

 

Reading through your site, I have a few questions.

"They are all four-cylinder, normally-aspirated, sport compacts, not older than the 1990 model (or its identical equivalent, if an earlier year). They came from the factory with quoted power between 120 and 150hp and with a approximate curb weights of 2200 to 2800 pounds"

Isnt there significant overlap here with Honda Challenge? Of course your series opens it up to Neons, Mazdas, VWs,etc but it seems to me like these target that you have identified is mainly hondas.

What would you think of having 2 car classification levels instead of 2 preperation levels? Standard prep level similar to USTCC prep levels (stock engine, standard suspension mods) for both classes [edit: sans "stupid" ustcc rules], and put the 120-150 hp cars in the lower class, and higher powered cars like BMWs, audis, WRXs and ITRs in the higher class. Kind of a junior WC type thing.

or...keep the 2 seperate prep levels, but open up TL to BMWs, Audis, WRXs, and ITRs.

just thinking out loud

EDIT: after reading through your site more thoroughly, looks like your IT2 is already sorted and garnering support so obviously you wouldnt want to change that.



[Modified by elgorey, 5:52 PM 11/4/2002]

 

IT2 cars are "real" IT cars and are indeed eligible for ECHC. We also shamelessly mooched off of some of the things that HC does better than IT (like tire/wheel packages) for Touring Lite. Hondas are an obvious answer for either class but we would like to duplicate the kind of image that HC has, but for all makes. Again, if I end up in NC, I will build a Honda so I can run both series.

Interesting that you ask. It has already been suggested over at improvedtouring.com that the Touring Lite rules could be duplicated for the cars listed in WCT - GSR/ITR, 325/328, etc. I think it has merit but it is a little beyond what we want to take on. Ideally, someone would honcho that plan and we could coordinate the two so they align and make sense. This would be three classes at two preparation levels - IT2 (real IT rules) and "TLU/TLO" (or something, to the more liberal Touring Lite rules).

Thanks for your ideas!

Kirk

 

Interesting idea, Kirk.

To me, the USTCC got it wrong when they allowed cars like the WRX and 328is to compete. How do you equate that kind of power to an NA Protege with a stock engine? 2.5 RS - fine. WRX - a lot of power and easy to cheat (not claiming that it happens). 318is or ti - fine. 328is - a bit too much.

Commonly available brake upgrades, wheels, tires, wings, etc. make sense to me. I think that this is where SCCA IT fails to attract some of the newcomers to road racing.

The ECHC sounds like a lot of fun, but limiting a series to only one make is, well, limiting. Although I do realize the Acuras/Hondas dominate the tuning scene, I like the idea of different makes and models competing against one another. It opens up the series to more manufacturer and sponsor support in the form of contingencies and the like. Does ECHC allow hybrids? This, to me, is a giant can of worms and should be avoided.

Just some of my initial thoughts - whatever they're worth.

 

Yes they do, they run in their own class. Why is it a can of worms? They've limited the ruleset such that the short block must be remain stock with OE parts (US or JDM), while the head/cams are free. Whats to stop someone from building a $10K gernade that runs at 10,000+ rpm and puts down 230+ whp? Nothing really... if they have that kind of money but i dont think ECHC is going to attrack that level of preparation. If they have that kind of cash they'll pick on someone their own size (think SCCA GT class).

 

I guess if it's just one particular swap that's allowed, it would be reasonable to control. Just seems to me that allowing too many engine/chassis combos will make things more confusing and difficult to equalize and police. What is the need or desire to have such hybrids, though?

You'd think so, but have you seen some of the ITS BMWs/Mazdas and top Spec Miatas? I'm continually surprised at what people are willing to spend to be up front, even in a Regional or spec class.

 

Hybrids are cheap for the level of performance they provide, and alot of guys have put them together to do track days with - it gives them a race series in which to compete. You could put that $10,000 gernade into a 1800 CRX HF chassis and go really farkin fast.... Or even a decent B20/VTEC like chad has in his peice.

I've seen it. I think the $5K motor for a spec class is absurd. And even more for an IT prep motor... These guys have more in their motors than I'll probably have in my car when i start racing.