Hello all -

As the title says, I'm trying to figure out why the car won't start. It cranks, timing belt turns, has spark etc. So I went to check valve lash. Put #1 at TDC, then took the cap off and noted the distributor was pointed at #4. Why is that? Shouldn't it be pointed at #1? Thank you for your time... I did a search but came up with nothing helpful other than "don't worry about it, the grooves match up and it should be fine".

 

There are 2 TDC on a four cycle motor.
The one you are interested in TDC on the compression stroke. That is both valves fully closed. You are prolly 180 degrees off. It is impossible to have the rotor in the wrong spot (UNLESS) the timing belt has jumped. The dizzy only goes on one way to the cam.

 

So I need to rotate the crank 180 degrees? Or turn the rotor? I'm confused.

 

Car/engine information is required.

Background information?

 

95 civic DX, D15B7 with Y7 head. Car cranks, won't start. New distributor, plugs, wires and head gasket. Head has been resurfaced. Gets spark (weak) and fuel. Was going to check valve lash

 

What works had been done prior to incorrect timing issue?
Verify that the valves for cylinder 1 are all closed and crank pulley is at TDC also.
If not, rotate the crank untill the marks line up to TDC .

There are only two ways the timing can be off by 180º.

1. Timing belt was installed incorrectly.if no work has been done to the belt prior to the issue, continue to #2.

2. Distributor was installed incorrectly. Although very difficult to install this way, its not impossible. I have seen at least two stupid people do it this way.
If crank and cams are at TDC and all valves are closed, but ignition timing is still off, remove distributor and reinstall again.
If you are having difficulty inserting it back, its probably in the wrong pisition.
Rotate the shaft 180º and install dizzy. Check if the rotor now points to cylinder 1.


Edit...

Did not seen the headworks immediately.
Check your mechanical timing Also

 

Thank you for the response. I will update after this weekend.

 

I just did a head job on the same engine.

The distributor can be put on only 2 ways. Correct, or 180 out. Mine has 2 prongs sticking off the bottom of the distributor that fit into recessed cavities on the cam. You can likely pull the distributor, rotate the gear 180, and re-install.

Axis11 is pretty spot on with his info.

 

you swapped a y7 head onto the block and trued to start it without doing the valve lash?


Not hard to figure out tdc either buddy. Theres a pointer on the block and crank pullye line them up on the red mark if the #1 piston is down that btdc if its at the top..............













Thats top dead center

 

I'm a first timer... I've never done this before, and I'm learning. I suppose I've learned quite a bit from asking for advice on a forum that is designed for Honda enthusiasts who attempt to perform their own maintenance. Nowhere have I read that I needed to check valve lash, which is most likely an oversight on my behalf... my bad.

 

Dont get an attitude, guy

Pick up a hemls or haynes manual. Theyre 20 bucks at autozone.

 

Or save your $20, and download a factory service manual. So much more information.

 

I have a Haynes manual. It did not reference swapping a head. I have found where it says to check valve lash... again, an oversight on my behalf. I did try to download the factory service manual, but my MacBook wouldn't download it. I suck at computers as well as cars. Again, thanks for all the help provided.

 

Sooo... distributor was 180 degrees off. I figured that out. I put everything back together and ENSURED timing was good. Distributor was pointed at the right place, etc. Plugs were put on properly. I go to start it, and it sounds like it is "whirring"... Like a whirring noise, literally. It doesn't sound like it is trying to start at all. I checked for spark, and the spark was weak and orange. I cleaned all grounds, checked wiring, it looks good. I even sanded down every ground point (tranny to frame/valve cover to the front by the headlight/thermostat housing for ecu). I am lost, and have no idea what is left. Oh yeah, valve lash looked spot on. Please, help me!

 

If the spark is orange, then your coil is done, or your wiring is bad, or your battery is dead (but I doubt the starter would be turning if your battery was that dead). Also, distributor to cam keys are offset - they CAN'T be 180 out. At least for the Y7, which you claim to have, I know that as a fact. I can take a picture of MY distributor when I get home, if you don't believe me.

Is this a new build that you haven't gotten to start yet, or something that was running but now isn't?

 

Wiring could be an issue. The head is a y7, unless the camshaft is not a stock y7 cam? The distributor was 180 off, since I was on tdc but the distributor was pointed the opposite direction. I took off the distributor and turned it 180 and it was pointed at cylinder 1, which was at TDC.

I have never been able to get this car to start. I bought it for $700. I replaced the head with a y7 head since the old one looked a wreck.

I wish I had a Honda guru to just come over and help. As far as wiring is concerned, what should I look for? This engine harness is a hot mess, but I figured since the thing cranks (which I was at a point where it was close to starting, at least it sounded like it) it must be another issue. The grounds are GOOD.

 

So you don't know what cam, cam gear, timing belt, or...what ANYTHING are in this motor? I'm going to try to say this as politely as I can...


Getting a Y7 head to work properly on a B7 block takes a very specific set of parts.

 

It's quite possible that the keyed portion of the distributor is 180 out all on its own, if it was rebuilt, or just disassembled/reassembled without the rotor shaft marks being aligned, you can very easily line it up 180 out and install the stay pin and clip. Hence why they bothered marking the shaft end and the keyed part.

 

Yes you can install a distributor the wrong way. Are the keyways in there correct location on the crank and on the cam gear? When rotating the crank, with timing belt on, is it at TDC? If so are the words on the cam gear "up" in its upright position, is the arrow pointing up?

 

The word "up" is pointed up on the cam gear. The two lines on either side of the cam gear were absolutely flush with the head (valve cover off). The Crank pulley tooth with the dab of white paint was absolutely in line with the arrow on the block. The distributor was a brand new distributor.

Cliff notes: Weak spark still, all the grounds are good. No start condition. I am picking up a distributor from a friend Tuesday. I will update again after I install that one and try and start her.

 

Or you could just do the diagnostic test I handed you...

 

Weak spark, check coil as ^^ stated.

 

Well... Thank everyone for the help. You will probably laugh at my expense, so I guess my lesson is learned. After all this time, all the heartache and bloody knuckles... The crank gear had a tooth painted white. My ASSumption was the white paint mark signified TDC. I did not see a groove or anything else. In my haste, and inability to clean the thing off well enough, I missed the groove/dash mark that was on the opposite side of the crank gear. I also didn't bother looking at the crank pulley, or distributor pulley whatever you want to call it. Soooooo I reset the timing, said a prayer and she STARTED RIGHT UP LIKE NOTHING HAD EVER HAPPENED. She purred. I revved her up, and she sounded great. Anyways, thanks again everyone. My setup:

1995 Civic DX
D15B7
D16Y7 head - complete aka internals cam and cam gear
D15B7 Distributor
D16Y7 timing belt
D16Y7 plug wires
D16Y8 spark plugs
D15B7 water pump
D16Y8 head gasket

Yes, the head swap required the top left head bolt from a D16Y8/Y7 since it sits higher. I didn't know this at first and freaked out a little when the B7 head bolt wouldn't tighten anymore.

 

 

Yep, I got it. I'm an idiot, and you clearly identified what I should have been looking for. I thank you for replying! I still didn't process that in my brain and was still stuck on the white paint mark on the tooth. I hope anyone searching the topic can use my post and learn from my simple mistake.