Ello guys on H-T, I have a dilemma about this after doing some research.. I have a oem usdm ITR crank pulley on my setup now (since its supposedly lighter than the rest of the other b series) and was wondering if I would benefit anything from upgrading to an ATI street/racing damper.. Is it true these dampers weigh only 3-4lbs (checked their website already btw) vs OEM? I'm dying to find out so I can make use of my "lost hp". I know these questions are annoying and maybe answered numerous times but I just want to be sure if I should purchase one or not.. Ati street/race damper or OEM ITR pulley (with a/c and p/s). Be grateful if anybody on H-T can chime in..

 

I doubt it will free up HP theres lots of mods you can do besides that that will acually gain you real HP, The pulleys will only really give you better and faster throtlle responce in which a AEM pulley set can achieve.

Why do you feel the need to upgrade the engine hormonic balancer?

I once upgraded to a unorthadox crank pulley, it just really gave me a bit better and faster throttle responce, i was doing a full N.A build so anything at the time that will improve the performance was done. The engine lasted a few years. But not worth it imo compared to getting a good intake, throtle body, exhaust system ect..

 

Thanks for the response wunfstgsr! I figured since my motor made 230 on the dyno, I figured I could free the "drag" on the pulley so that it'll help me rev up faster (which for all motor it would help a lot correct?).. But since u said its not worth it, now Im having second thoughts..

My motor is a B20v
B16 P&P head
Endyn bumpstix (might upgrade to pro3)
Skunk2 pro series manifold
68mm throttle body port matched to the manifold
B20 block with wiseco 85mm 13cr pistons stock sleeves
3" exhaust
93octane tuned

Just wanted some input on whether it would help me out to purchase this since its lighter?? I know you guys are getting sick of hearing the same old thing over and over..

 

you are missing the real benefit. the factory pulley was designed with the rubber isolated ring to dampen the vibrations of a crank swinging factory pistons and runs turning a factory flywheel and clutch etc with powersteering, alternator etc.... as soon as you change any of these things the factory "calibration" of the original pulley does less or nothing.

The more rpm you turn the more critical it is. There will be peaks in vibration amplitude that are greater as you move up in rpm. in drag racing a lot of people dont worry because the engine stays at each rpm for such a short period of time. road racing is different because if you find yourself in the situation where the engine sits at one specific rpm for a few seconds it could be right at a bad harmonic and you could do some damage.

if you just want it to say you have a lightweight pulley then go ahead and get one but your hp/$ gain will probably be in the 1hp/200$ ballpark

 

Forgot to mention I came to the conclusion that the cause of the crank bearing failure was from use of the unorthodox pulley.

 

I thought the ati damper has a harmonic dampener built inside it?? I read around H-T and see others using it for insurance, and plus its lighter (5lbs) than oem? I never got the chance to weigh the ITR pulley.. I do however, have a stock gsr crank pulley laying around and it feels like it weighs around 15-20lbs. Now Im really confused.. So the ATI street damper wont do me any good compared to my ITR oem (i bought this from acura so it has PS and AC) one?

 

Not sure about the ATI unit but the unorthodox is all metal.

 

Take my advise upgrade the skunk 2 pro series manifold and 68 mm tb to the new skunk2 ultra street and 74mm tb you will love the power difference after tuned it made a world of a difference when I did.

 

How do y'all not know about ATI?lol

It is not at all a solid pulley. His engine will be completly safe with it. However, I could've sworn they were heavier than stock pullies, but maybe I'm wrong.

Either way, OP you should be aware that the ATI requires additional rebuilding after a certain amount of time, and each rebuild is in the $50-75 ballpark. I don't think it'd be worth it for a mild build at mild RPMs

 

Man I thought it would help a lot since I heard it was lighter than oem (could be wrong) and Im all motor as well..

I was thinking about that too! The only problem is that I dont know whether to go with the ported one from 4piston or just a regular one.....


Good responses fellas appreciate the help!

 

I'm going to boost soon so my porter told me no to waist my time unless I planed to boost 30+ psi but if your staying na it might help out a lil but it's up to you.

 

I was going to agree with wunfstgsr's advice, but then I noticed something....

You didn't list what header you have. Is it just stock or ITR or something? If so, the biggest benefit would be had by getting a quality header suited for your setup. Any kind of stock or eGay style header is your biggest restriction right now

EDIT: It appears you were right OP, the B series ATI damper is 3.6lbs per JHPUSA's website

 

Sorry bro forgot to mentioned it, but I have RMF narrow replica headers from H-T. So what do you think about the ATI? Woudn't it benefit me a lot since I'm N/A?? I do want the ultra manifold but still debating whether to get the ported or non ported one. Will I see better gains with the ported from 4P and if so, would it be significant? I do understand every motor is different especially with the b series (not responding good to mods compared to k series). My hands are itching and about to order something soon lol! How about the hondata coil packs?

 

Can't comment much about the coil packs, but sure they'd be good for more response and maybe a couple ponies. Hopefully someone else will chime in about those.

Your header is good enough I think, although there are others that have tested better (even replicas, I'm thinking the Toda rep).

IMO, the absolute best power for the money would come from a custom header. Then again, maybe finances are of no concern to you. In that case:

Yes you will benefit from the ATI. You wont benefit very much for the price though, at $350+ and not including future rebuilds. You may feel better engine response, but as far as an overall power increase, no not really.

The next best thing besides a custom header is what wunfstgsr suggested. Is the 4P port job worth it? IDK, I have yet to see dyno evidence. Even so, it probably won't be a huge gain for the price

 

Dont bother with a ported one imo save the money from the porting and put it twards tuning or another aspect, as far as coil packs and cop conversions if your not making big HP like 300 WHP B series its not nessasary, the stock ignition system is good for more power you can ever pull out N.A. Forget the crank pulley imo look into a set of AEM power pulleys, they will give you a bit better throttle responce. Im willing to bet you will eventually go boost. I was a All motor guy for the longest time but what i had to do to squeaze out 216 WHP was not fun for my pockets nor was it worth the time and effort. It was fun but once you drive a turbo or supercharged B series its a whole other world.

 

Yeah I see what you mean.. Im planning on doing a turbo build but not with this B20 bottom end.. Im at 85mm with stock sleeves and 13c/r.. Alright, so the ultra street manifold and 74mm throttle body it is! Thanks for helping me out fellas, /THREAD !

EDIT!

One last thing, I should go with the street or race manifold?

 

H series is where it's at when staying N/A. Let me know when you see the light lol

Oh ya, a little tid bit of pulley info:

I just remembered that the Euro-R pulley for H series is a tad over 5lbs. I imagine the ITR pulley is even less. So you would hardly be saving any weight if at all with the ATI anyway. Now you can sleep easy lol

 

just get the street and when you go boost you can decide if you wanna upgrade to the race manifold. If your not aiming for high HP like 400+ when you boost the street just still might be good enough still. You can always do a dyno comparison and share your results, swaping the manifold is not a huge job if you know what your doing.

 

I saw the light after I started the build which blows lol


Will do and thanks for the advice! Ill post up dyno sheets to compare it.

 

Aw lol well if you plan on boosting in the future anyways B series would prolly be the way to go

 

The ati is lighter than even the itr. the ati street is 3.6lbs (they say its balanced so well it actually spins like it weighs 2.2lbs) the itr is 5.5lbs according to the stats for it in the acura parts catalog. The ati is the same thing as a harmonic balancer it just does it differently thats why its a dampner. If you get your whole rotating assembly balanced then you dont need a balancer at all. But if you dont then from what ive read you cant get better than an ati for a honda motor. I got my assy balanced on my 10k b16 build and I am still gonna run an ati. Better safe than waste 4k. Ive seen alot of people with even ctr pulleys destroy engines the vibrations break the oil pump gear.

 

Dang my Euro R pulley is even lighter than the ITR, didn't see that coming. 4.95lbs.
I believe that even a fully balanced 4 cylinder assembly will have secondary harmonic vibrations which are inherent to all I4 cylinder designs

 

yeah even fully balanced they do still ave some harmonic vibrations (which is why I am still gonna run an ati) but if its balanced well enough then they wont be enough to destroy stuff. like the ctr balanced rotating from the factory so they dont run an external balancer.

 

My name is Ivan and I work for Fluidampr. Although I work for a competitor and want everyone using our product, I do have to say that ATI is a much better choice than any lightweight pulley. I personally travel the country testing Fluidampr dampers vs. OEM harmonic balancers vs. lightweight pulleys vs. ATI dampers and each and every time Fluidampr puts up higher h.p. and torque numbers. Usually these gains are 5-10 h.p. and similar on torque. ATI is the only other unit on the market that is even close. These two dampers are in a league of their own to any other option available. Lightweight pulleys will give you quicker throttle response, however, do very little to absolutely nothing to protect critical engine components from dangerous torsional vibrations (harmonics). There are reasons 99% of OEM engineers use harmonic balancers and most importantly it is because they are critical to engine life. Every OEM out there would use a cheap cast lightweight pulley if they could vs. a bonded rubber and steel unit that costs more to manufacture. Also, both ATI and Fluidampr agree that the weight of the damper is critical to ensure the correct amount of inertia for a given application in order to control the harsh torsional vibrations the engine will incur. Basically, a heavier damper (there is a limit) will do a better job of controlling torsional vibration leading to more power. The damper does not make power, but frees up power that is lost due to vibrations. With every powerstroke of the engine the force is so severe that it actually twists the crank ahead of its natural rotation and then it rebounds back creating vibrations that are transmitted back into the crank. When a frequency of the vibration becomes in tune with the frequency of material used in the rotating assembly it is then amplified and is transmitted through the crank and onto other critical components, i.e. bearings, transmission, driveline, etc. A damper is there to absorb this crankshaft twist as best it can thus reducing the amount of vibration back into the engine which ultimately robs power. I hope this helps understand the need of a harmonic balancer. Please feel free to reach me at ivan@fluidampr.com with any questions or to learn more visit The Original Fluidampr

 

I have researched Fluidampr technology and it is very interesting. I'd like to do my own unbiased tests of the two best dampers sometime