For some time, i have had a project gsr ive been trying to rebuild in my spare time.

as far as the motor work goes, it is an 82mm itr piston oem bearing stock everything else

A while back i finished the rebuild, everything went smooth, did my first oil change. Drove the car a bit more and than i had my first experience with a screeching cam. A friend of mine had said that i may have put the tensioner on too tight. I agree'd, i did not follow proper steps to tightening tensioner.

As a remedy, i used emery cloth and cleaned up my caps. Car ran for a few minutes and the screech returned. I sourced a new set of cams, cleaned the caps again, and trashed another set of cams.

I traded some parts i had for another head (i'd like to think i know what im looking at by now), head looked great. Cleaned up the carbon, lapped the valves, installed, followed torque specs, super dooper lubed cams and journals, did everything by the book. Fired it up, and car started off great. After about 2 minutes, the sound started to return and i quickly turned the car off. Why am i having this issue???

This engine has less than 100 miles on it. The oil pump was within like new tolerances when i checked it and was reassembling. The cams have lubrication when i take the caps off. I am using arp headstuds. Compression is consistant across all 4. Nothing really abnormal on cylinder walls. I did see a metal shaving in my vtec solenoid screen and magnetic drain has more of fine grayish material i rub off of it. I am stumped. What do you think is the problem?

 

hmm, i find it kinda odd to trash a set of cams before really doing work on the much softer aluminum cam journals and caps..

you can plastigage the cam journals to see if the tolerances are within spec. i think it was something like .003-.006" as the workable range on a vtec motor. i think it was the red colored plastigage i did it a few years ago but forgot exactly.

the timing belt on a cold motor should actually be kinda loose, about halfway down the return side you should be able to rotate the belt about 90*

 

Probably a redundant question but did you use any assembly lube when installing the cams or even motor oil? the time between the motor starting and the oil getting into the head and warmed up enough to spread throughout the head there's not enough lubrication going on possibly. Also possibly a backwards install of the cam holder's maybe....when in doubt triple check everything

 

I will plastiguage and also post pics of cams today. Also i think i should replace the oil and compare my belt with a new belt. Probably have to bust out the emery paper again.

Yes, this time i did use copious amounts of assembly lube and motor oil for i feared this happening again. The belt is seomewhat loose when cold. I follow torque specs and sequence to a T.

The motor ran for about 2 minutes before the screech came back. It also blew 2 fuses in that time.

 

Took a look. Here's what I found. Please tell me what I am doing wrong. The obvious wear is on the cam is closest to the timing belt. Something odd I saw is that there is wear even where the cam seals are. There is now a silver strip that coincides with them. The caps themselves look pretty much the same. I guess if I am going to continue this I should source another set of cams (this would be the 3rd set ive ruined). There is a little wear in the cap #3 area too. Here are pics of my tensioner and the cams. Any insight is appreciated.

The way I assembled everything is according to helms. I advanced 3 teeth on cams counter clockwise and then tightened tensioner to 40ft lbs. I assembled the caps in order and torqued in order 20 ft lbs for 1-10 and 7.2 ft lbs or 86 for 11-14.

 

Is the oil jet still in the block?

 

so if you run your fingernail lengthwise down the cam does it catch?

ill be honest its kinda hard to see with the oil on the cam but it doesnt look really abnormal. what do the undersides of the cam caps look like?

here are my 2 other thoughts. your tensioner is fucked. it looks like its got some scuffs or whatever on it where the belt rides. i wonder if the bearings are going out and once it warms up it doesnt move freely causing hot spots on the belt to discolor the pulley. this could very well screech (just not like dustin diamond no switchblades here lol)


other thought is its your alternator locking up or something like that. the blown fuse thing is kinda weird.

any belt (timing or alternator etc) trying to move over a non free moving pulley could and likely will screech.

good luck, drink some beers and take it in stride you'll get it sorted out dont drive yourself crazy in the process

 

heres a vid with the last head on


this did not occur on initial startup but a few minutes after in both cases. I think my main relay went out since fuel pump will not prime anymore but i can hear a click when i turn to ignition and also a fuse for cooling fan. I agree, odd things to happen when starting a somewhat fresh rebuild. I heard one hard click when i was hovering around the motor, and another from inside when i was in the car starting it

 

im pretty sure i got the oil jet there right?

Heres a pick from the last set of cams in the other head


heres a pic of the first cams in the other head

Maybe it could be the tensioner?
I noticed that when I was trying to pull the timing belt off. Even with the tensioner loose, it did very little giving for me to slide the timing belt off. I had to pull the last head i got from the block in my friend's storage unit, and it was a lot more "giving" when loose.

the wear patterns are all very similar. I will try to see if my hand catches on the cams. as for the tensioner, hard to believe such a thing could go bad just from sitting, but I am at a loss right now for trying to figure out my issue here. Do you guys think the tensioner is the culprit?

 

If you can try to put up some pictures of the can caps before you try to clean then up again

 

Kinda looks like your cams are not getting oil. see how the journal on the camshaft is more worn on the outer edges further away from the oil feed?just for ***** and giggles take the valve cover off disable fuel pull the plugs and crank the engine. there should be a steady stream of oil coming out of the spray bars.
do you have an oil pressure gauge?

 

close up of 1



1,2,3 from bottom to top



caps 4 and 5 from bottom to top



I do not have an oil pressure gauge. tomorrow I will sort out my no start issue n try to crank engine with v.c off. Maybe even rent an oil pressure tester??? Place it in the oil pressure sending unit location? Also, I am worried about chewing through another set of cams so I do not think that running the car is the best option. Based on whats happened though, I guess we can determine that I either have an issue with my tensioner, or oil pressure? both?

 

Does your oil pressure dummy light seem to stay on longer than normal after it fires off?

 

Did you ever get the head cleaned out?what about the dowel pin and o ring under cap 3?

 

Can you explain what you mean? Did you tighten them in a straight line or did you

5,1,3,7
6,2,4,8

 

yes I torque'd down in proper sequence, starting in the middle and then on right left, etc. the way you had mentioned.

oil pressure light does not come on. I also made sure i turned over the block with dizzy disconnected to let oil pressure build. But again, the issue did not occur right away on start up but after a few short minutes of idling.

I gave the head a half decent cleaning, most of my focus was on cleaning the valves, seats, and making sure they had lapped well.

the dowel in cap 3 is still there.

Im beginning to think that maybe there is an issue with the block, or is it my oil? it is really clean and not dark, but does have some glitter to it. It is still a motor that hasn't exactly been broken in i feel.

 

Since the problem has persisted with 2 heads and sets of cams I would really think it has to be an oiling problem instead of being a cam cap to cam clearance issue. I would suggest hooking up an oil pressure guage and seeing what your pressure is. Was the oil pump replaced with the rebuild? How about the tensioner? It does look to have some wear.

 

dont forget its 12 ftlbs for the big bolts right through the sequence, then back through again to 20 ftlbs. i usually get all the bolts seated and just barely snug then go through the order making sure to completely do one cam then go and to the 2 steps on the other cam

 

I took apart the oil pump n examined it as per manual using a precision straight edge and feeler gauges. It was within new specs. The tensioner i did not replace either. The story with this car is it was previously built by someone beat up n sold to me (less than 5k miles). These were corners i chose to cut n its probably costing me now. This thread has been helpful. Lately i feel so close to parting out the car. In thinking and talking with everyone its evident i need to replace the tensioner n go from there. The cams have repeated wear from journals 1-3 and not so much 4 and 5. I will also rent an oil pressure tester n see where it goes. I should have 10psi on startup correct?

Thanks for the tip about torqueing the big ones too. I usually used my drill on lowest setting (basically hand tight) in order, then torque to 20. I will use 2 steps

 

Torque wrenches are crucial when building a honda.

 

I have an oil pressure gauge, and on initial start like in morning when engine dead cold oil pressure is very high like 80 psi. Once at normal operating temp psi sits at 20 psi while idling. Only thing I can think of is viscosity from cold to hot. Fyi My sensor is where stock one was right under oil filter (h22) if this helps at all. Hope you figure this out man, you think your head could be warped? Have you tried cleaning all the oil ports in cam caps, and rails, maybe the cam gear side caps are clogged with something.

 

on startup it should usually be around 70-80 psi. once warm it will probably be around 20 at idle. i think it need more than 50 psi by 3000 rpm.

you can go to to autozone or whatever parts store you have local and probably pick up a cheap sunpro mechanical oil pressure gauge for like 20 or 30 bucks

you definitely need a torque wrench and to follow the specs. maybe get a new tensioner, put it back together with the oil pressure gauge, follow the specs and go from there. also make sure that alternator of yours is spinning freely. i still find it hard to believe that a bad tb tensioner alone will blow fuses.


if you put and oil pressure gauge in the motor from the stock sensor location on the back of the block, TORQUE TO 12 FTLBS AND NO MORE. that port can easily break off if you overtighten ive seen it happen to others and its happened to me too. if that does your fucked and you have to take it out and weld it shut. a bit of teflon on the threads it wont leak.

happy new year

 

That 12 ft lbs standard on all honda motors?

 

The second picture you have posted. Is that the port your suppose to have the oil orifice o ring between head and cam cap. If you don't have it, your head won't have oil pressure I'm assuming.

 

not sure, on b series the spec is actually 13 ftlbs but its something i dont want to **** with its not worth it.
i also just checked the helms and its 13 ftlbs for the single cams too. not sure about h series or k's etc but it probably cant be far off