Hey everyone.

Best wishes of the holiday season.

I am having a tough time to decide what upgrade I should do first. My setup is:

Stock b20 block - low comp stock pistons
B16 VTEC mildy ported polished head itr cams
B16 stock intake and tb
Plm v2 header
Neptune ecu
3" exhaust line

Application - Motor is in a 3rd gen civic. Daily driver and weekend street racer.

My upgrade choice.

1. DDtech custom drop in cams - as no one in my country does proper degree. With Supertech valve train. Cams would be compareble to pro1's

2. Skunk street ultra manifold. Port matched polished inside with a 70mm Alfa tb.

Which upgrade in your opinion should be done first and why. I am asking as I can't afford both together.

Hope u show me the way.

Regards

 

Cams will probably deliver the bigger punch for you but their full potential wont be reached until the engine can breathe enough to use them to their full potential. I personally would hold off until you can do both and behold the full range of the power increase. plus it would be a hell of a lot easier on you when installing.

 

Hey

Thanks for the reply.

If ever u had to do them one by one which would u do first?

Also which brand of intake? Would u suggest.

Regards

 

Choose Camshafts based upon Manifold / Header setup. If you plan on getting one, Get the other. The Ultra "STREET" from skunk2 would suit your motor very well, its a very mild 2 liter, and i've personally had some success with this manifold on high comp built 1.8 and mildly done 2.0s. It's fairly cheap vs other options. Another good option is a VictorX.

Our drop in camshafts are around a 250 @ .050. You're going to be fine with a longer runner manifold if the setup stays the same. PerformerX, Street Ultra, things of that nature.

Run a Tapered Intake arm. Meaning, if you run a 4'' at opening, taper it down to meet the opening of the throttle body if possible. No motor WHAT size engine i've seen gains going to a larger intake pipe diameter.

 

I always thought it made more sense to choose intake and header design based off of engine internals, since that does dictate how your engine breathes. But that's just my idea.

 

No.
The Camshaft dictates how the engine breaths. You design your motor setup around your camshaft profile, Not the other way around.

 

Exactly. Internals i.e. camshafts.

However, you just said, "Choose Camshafts based upon Manifold / Header setup." in your first post.

That is the opposite of "You design your motor setup around your camshaft profile, Not the other way around."

Of course, I agree with your second statement.

 

Hah I think what he meant was that if your motor is already built then you will want to choose a Cam(one with appropriate lift and duration) based on what your existing I,IMF,H,E would be capable of supporting,
Ideally One would base there build off of what power band, purpose of use then Identify a Cam with a profile that meets the criteria then what IMF and header would support the flow needed to maintain efficiency and keep the power band in its ideal range. For most the only limitations in this department is budget.

 

^^^Ah then that would make sense

 

Chris, Coming in with the clutch. Good job, Confirming. I like to see people who understand things. Tracer, now that you understand, Good.

 

I was thinking Stock B20B pistons the VALVE pockets need to be REsized?
OR
Is THAT only for B18A/B stock pistons with AfterMarket Cams the VALVE pockets should be REsized . I've seen OEM itr cams work.

NOW OP wants to go BIGGER LIFT? correct.

I think There might Be Piston to Valve contact?

anyone?

 

GET the intake manifold first thats just me.

 

Stock b20 pistons with aftermarket cams? Hmmmm. .. I've always heard/read that's gonna cause contact. I think ITR is generally the biggest you can go on those pistons. Valve reliefs are tiny.

 

Depends on which Bottom end. Notching the reliefs is a option as well. I believe the OP plans on changing pistons/rods for something generic.

 

He said low compression B20, So I assume its the B20B. Wouldn't both the B20b and B20z pistons have the same size valve reliefs since they share the same head? (excluding that rare P8r head with vtec intake sized valves).

Seems a lot of people are really liking the ultra street manifold...I think since your still on a b16 intake manifold and throttle body, that would be the next logical choice as to letting the engine breathe. Especially being a 2 Liter. Sure there are some gains to be had over ITR cams with bigger cams, but there's much better gains to be had with an intake system that actually flows...

Btw, portmatch yes, I wouldn't polish the intake though. Read up on boundary layers and laminar airflow.

 

Change the
1. pistons first, atleast some 84mm ycp itr copycats if budget is an issue
1a. buy a set of arp rod bolts

2. choose or ask from Derek DDTech what cams is best for you, get the IM/TB pairing Derek suggested

 

With b20b block and b16 head your compression is at 9:2
Not even close to run any kind of high lift cams unless you have boost.
A high compression piston would be best upgrade before doing anything else
Unless you plan to boost

 

OP what transmission are you running?

I can't stress this enough..... gearing makes a world of difference in regards to performance just as much as the parts that go on/in the motor.

A stock b20v w/ a LS/B20 tranny is no fun. A stock B20V w/ a B16 tranny is a ton of fun...and MUCH quicker. Gearing also changes what upgrades you might make in the future as well.

Look at the picture as a whole. Just my .02

 

This^^^

 

such a general statement above.

you pick gearing based on what the car is used for

ls- daily driver/gas mileage. and lower redline like nonvtec and b20vtec
itr/b16 is wen you only use it for racing because daily with short gears is not fun (with few exceptions)
gsr is the middle ground thats why they are so popular.

 

Yes and no

Gearing directly effects performance. Gearing effects cam selection and power-band goals. You can have 1000whp, but with the wrong gears it is useless and you will get cooked by a car setup properly with half the power. I don't think many people build a car then sacrifice everything for gas mileage/comfort. If you do, then you shouldn't be building a car.

 

Thats what i said u pick the gearing for what the car is used for.
Not everyone is drag racing from light to light at every stop light
A engine makes power. Transmission puts it to the wheels.
for a street car unless ure a 16 year old kid a b16 transmission is very short.
b20 has enough torque as is to pull the ls tranny around the block

 

You don't see my underlying point here. IF he picks a specific cam/intake the gearing will effect how well the power is used and if it would even be worth the upgrade. Since he wants to upgrade cams/intake I will assume he is looking for performance vs. gas mileage, other wise leave it stock. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE CORRECT GEARING TO MAKE THE MODS USEFUL is all I am saying. Put a LS tranny on a B20V w/ aftermarket cams and intake and you basically sacrificed all the money/power you just invested in the motor. PLUS I know numerous people who get just as good of gas mileage on a B16 tranny as an LS tranny. Its all how well the partial throttle is tuned. Am I wrong? Dropping out of the power-band with shifts will make the car feel slower. Cut and dried.

This is why a Stock LS w/ B16 tranny will pull B16 swaps in the same car around the block day in and day out. Gearing to the torque/power curve is key.

Short trannys aren't for 16 year olds racing to the next stop light. They are for winning races on properly built motors.

I'm not going to debate this, gearing is just as important, if not more important than motor mods. You can make your car fast just by switching gears on a stock motor. In this case a GSR tranny may be a good compromise for performance/comfort. That is ultimately up to him to decide. He said DD/street racing is what it will be used for. LS tranny is for grandma. GSR is for DD, B16 is for DD/street racing and a 4.7FD will make everything else look bad up to 120. I'm done debating things I know I'm right about though.

 

sorry bro but no.
Ure thinking one way and missing my point. I know about cams and power band. I also know how it is driving a b20 with b16 tranny. Its retarded for daily driving.
again. Not everyone is drag racing from light to light
And can sacrifice a bit of power for driveability with ls tranny regardless of what cams he puts in it.
many people have no problem racing with gsr trannys myself included. I switched from b16 to gsr and much happier with longer gears

 

What is your point? That longer gears are more comfortable to drive on daily? OK, most would agree. They don't mean better performance though which is where my post came from. I don't know why you are arguing with me over this. My post was simply an opinion/suggestion/food for thought. A motor can benefit from different gearing.

I don't think you get my point. The OP didn't even list what tranny he is running. I just threw my opinion in about a build as a whole. He's looking for performance which GEARING DOES MATTER whether you want to agree or not. 9 out of 10 people will agree with me. you are that 10th person that doesn't get it.

GSR w/ GSR tranny will not run with a GSR w/ ITR/B16 tranny given all aspects (drivers, cars etc. are the same) End of story. I'm done discussing this. If gearing wasn't important Honda wouldn't have come from the factory with different options on different motors. Anyone else have any input? Maybe I've lost my mind?

OP sorry for this cloud.