I need to get a rubber brake line for a wheel caliper on an Accord. Mine has a very tiny leak where the metal crimp meets the rubber, it forms a small tiny bubble when you push on the brake pedal. Normally I always try to use Honda parts as a first choice but my dealer does not have it in stock. I'm under the gun and need to get the line replaced now. With brake lines due to the liability issue, I dont know if there is any difference in quality between the Honda parts or aftermarket. Perhaps the Honda brake line exceeds the legal standard but the aftermarket only meets or complies with it, which may be sufficient. In fact, a local salvage yard owner I talked to told me that all brake lines are the same for that reason.

So, I was wondering what the opinions are on three common brake line brands: Dorman, Wagner, Raybestos. I never heard of the Wagner brand.

I tried to discover what materials the various brands were composed of but the only information I could gather was that the retail consumer parts stores like Autozone ^ Advance Auto and Pep Boys brake hose is made of EPDM rubber. Is that what it should be made of, or is that what the cheap stuff is made of ? My whip hose is Parker EPDM. At any rate, I imagine that the US has certain minimal safety standards in place for brake hose that is sold in the US, so it cant be that bad.

There are some premium brands, like Goodyear, Bendix, and PBR. I dislike PBR pads, I found them to be very noisy and inferior to OE pads. I cant find any retail sellers for Goodyear or Bendix.

I also located a few other supposedly premium brands, but there is even less information about these brands: Nichirin, ARI, Beck-Arnley (this is a distributor of their own brand, not a manufactures brand), Centric, claims to make OE lines. OES [too Scammy], Russell makes very pricey Stainless Steel lines.

Napa has the National (never heard of that brand).

In the end, the manufacturer that seems to supply most of the rebranded aftermarket brand names is Dorman.

What kind of product is Raybestos putting out these days in comparison to Dorman?

 

You'll be fine with any brake line from the auto parts store.

National is huge for other parts like wheel bearings and Wagner is one of the most well known replacement brake pad parts supplier.

In all honesty, it is my opinion that you are worrying to much about it. Most repair facilities don't use oem parts because they can get other brands for much less without losing too much quality or any (Sometimes). All we used at our shop were parts from carquest, advance, and autozone. Never really had any issues with brake lines.

 

I understand. I was asking because I dont have any experience with brake hose. My guess is that all brake hose has to meet certain safety specs, so, maybe the OE stuff goes a bit beyond that. For this particular part I decided on aftermarket. My Honda dealer wanted $99.99 for the same part, 5x what a name brand aftermarket cost. Would the OE hose be better, most likely, but I doubt its 5x better.

Now, one of the other reasons I was checking was that, when I compared aftermarket T-Stats to the OE Honda Stat, the Honda seems built like a tank in comparison. Cost 3x what the aftermarket cost but in that instance it was clearly a better product. Evidently, brake hoses are a different matter than T-stats.

 

some oem parts are better quality and some are the same. Thats where experience comes in. You know when to locate them at honda and when to buy brake pads at Oreillys...Check out majestichonda.com if you need oem stuff cheaper

 

Brake parts have to adhere to DOT regulations so they should be of better quality across the board.

 

Here is an OEM supplier that sells at discounted prices.

OEM Honda Parts Online - HondaPartsOnline.net

Some things I will get AM, but I have too many crappy AM parts to trust my life on some cheap Chinese brake hose that may or may not be ok.

The only AM brake hoses I have ever used are Stainless Steel Braided racing hoses.

 

I would replace both hoses on that axle as a set to ensure the compliance between left and right stays even, analogous to replacing only one shock on a given wheel.

Wagner makes some very good parts, brake hoses included. Dorman is usually overpriced because they claim to be OE in most cases, just like Beck-Arnley. No difference in performance from me, except the performance of your wallet...

 

just do a google search with all these mfgs.+review the result might disturb u. all i can say is STAY AWAY FROM DORMAN! do ur own search and u'll find out why

 

Yes, I saw those negative reviews for Dorman, but there were bad reviews on every brand. If Dorman is bad because they are made overseas, then so would Raybestos and Wagner be bad, since they are also made there too. I dont think there is any product that does not get a bad review. I can find much worse, like the no name brands from eBay crooks, so I avoid them. if I get a bad brand name hose, then at least I have the other half of the OE brake system I can depend on.

 

I agree. I always try to go OE if at all possible. But there is one thing about that. Honda doesnt make their own parts. They out-source it. It is hard to know who that is (trade secret), although sometimes you can figure that out (experience). However, it may be that Honda's hose is also made where other brands are made, overseas or the US. If it is made in the US, and not Japan anymore, as many of their vehicles now are, then whats the difference? If that is the situation then perhaps the only difference is their quality control or the brake hose mfr is using Honda's design standards, which is what I initially suspected. Is Honda's hose line guaranteed not to fail -- I dont think so, any brand can and does fail, hence the negative reviews. Of course, it is warrantied, but so are the other major brands. At any rate, I think the DOT is very strict in this area, not to mention mfr liability. Dont get me wrong, you cant go wrong with OE 99.9% of the time and I have no issue with Honda parts. Its just that sometimes circumstances develop where you have to deviate from what you normally choose to do. Thank you for your time and the information.

 

I understand the concept of Equilibrium, but I also understand that the hydraulic system is split diagonally front and rear, not left and right.

 

If you truly understood the concept then you would not be questioning the dynamic.

To educate you or inform you, when pressure is applied to all four wheels, any expanding brake line or hose/leak will create an overall lack of pressure and pedal firmness/braking power

 

You are correct.....
....but this guy is more correct.




Always replace brake hoses in pairs.

 

Then you would also understand, that compliance on any wheel affects the diagonal of that wheel as well. If you replace one hose, one circuit of the car as a whole can apply more brake pressure than the other. Replacing one will allow one circuit to outperform the other. Same concept as a left/right suspension differential.

 

Well, after I read the last in house H-T tweets on this issue, I contacted several local real world techs, master techs, and brake shop experts. I usually get second opinions (even if its an M.D.). Although they said I could replace all of the hoses if I wanted to, they also said it just was not necessary in the real world of what works for everyday auto repairs. They said if your other hoses were in good shape it just simply was not necessary. Furthermore they didn't believe several ASE techs/Master Techs or virtually any techs they knew of would be spending their time on the net answering a simple question like mine, over and over, the same answer three times. I told them the Master techs members were responding more than the nontech members. They found that fact very amusing. They said that if they had to replace all those hose lines everytime a customer had a very tiny leak in one line, they wouldn't have anymore customers. And they said the analogy to suspension stuff is totally misplaced. They further stated that not one of their single brake line replacements developed into any further leaking on the other lines because of such a repair. They said that was all just extreme engineering data that is rhetoric brake theory to generate capital and not real world advice, that it has been proven to be false, that even race track brake line repairs are done per need per line only. You guys dont even understand the physics theory at all. That got me real curious.

So, I managed to talk to an engineer about this subject and he informed me that the pressure is generated within the system itself, from 900 to 1200 psi and that if a part is leaking it is due to its own condition, NOT because some newer part made it fail, by applying more pressure to it -- the pressure is generated evenly in the system. The lines dont make the pressure they only sustain it or hold what is created by the system . . . if the pressure was created at the hoses that would be like the tail wagging the dog!

And neither are there any such mandates by the DOT, or in any state regs. No such requirement necessary. Have a nice day.

 

jesus quit being cheap and wasting your time, go get some brake lines and move on

 

Really? Care to give out some names and or shops. I find it hard to believe that the people you spoke to, with the claimed level of expertise you advertise, would advise against industry standardsand practices. Id like to contact them myself and inquire as to their reasoning.
They must be backyard hicks that have no notion of the world wide web,nor its importance in todays world of automotive repair. iATN is the largest(over 70 million members) collection of professional technicians, automotive engineers and shopowners on the net today. It has been in existence for over 15 years. There, we constantly communicate ,help and share information with each other and typically from there we are often memebers of other forums. I have been on HT for 10 years.
Yes ,I do. There is even a name for the theory. But surely you found that out from your "experts" LMFAO!!
An engineer from where? Where does he work,what is his name? Partick McCleish is a brake engineer at Centirc/Stop tech whom I communicate with on a regular basis. Perhaps I can run the name of your "expert" by him.














For what it is worth,you misunderstood the purpose of replacing brake lines in pairs. No one, not once, said not doing so would create more leaks. But since you have the ear of so many experts and we here are obviously frauds, I'll refrain from answering your simple question over and over.......

 

If one line is leaking, which would be do to age along with not having done enough flushes to keep the fluid clean, it would make sense that the other hoses would not be too far behind. Why would you want to take a chance with something as critical as a brake hose. You dont need an ase technician to tell you the obvious here. We're not talking about cosmetic issues. The brake system is critical.

If you want to listen to your "experts" thats your choice. The fact that you have the audacity to disrespect each and everyone here with your demeaning comments says enough for anyone in the future thinking of helping you.

 

I understand how you could have a perception that would cause this kind of reply. Not a problem. My fault, I left out so many details that you were left to think I was being cheap. I dont think your reply was meant in a personal way. I can only say this. Although I do have to count pennies, I am not being cheap. Several things going on: First of all, there is much detail I left out about parts and what I have access to (another story, too much to type). I'm just the type of person that doesnt throw parts at vehicles haphazardly, hoping that fixes it -- I want to know for sure. I am also interested in the physics principals at play here. At this point, because I have used an aftermarket part (which I usually dont do), if I were to start adding more hoses, I would now choose to use that same aftermarket brand, and it was one of the other H-T members that clearly was trying to alarm me about the Dorman brand, and yet another member also clearly said that brake hoses must meet the DOT standards and that does not matter. Dont believe me, read the replies brother. If I need more hoses in the future, I would most likely go OE, assuming I can still get OE from Honda. Why do I say that? Ironically, when I went to replace my OE quality copper brass radiator, even Honda no longer supplied the OEM rad, but instead is now using all aluminum and plastic. So much for the OE issue!? (read that sarcastically).

 

I agree, and that is what I said all along, a bad line needs replacing

 

There are people here who are master techs, who have worked on hondas longer than I have been alive, Ive been to school for automotive related education, built turbo hondas, read a few thousand pages on how they work, how to create them etc. When you go out of your way to stick your ***** in the air about your engineers, techs etc that dont believe in why we are here you **** everyone off including me. We are here to help people, teach them, get them back into the world in their car and help them build their dreams. Arguing over brake lines is the same thing as arguing about whether or not you should put the same tire on your car as the rest when you need four tires because they're all the same age, all rotten and all worn out. IF you want our advice, shut the hell up and listen. If one of us doesn't have an answer there is ALWAYS another member who has had more experience and can assist you.

 

I know you wont believe me, but I like that reply, it was sincere, not mean spirited, not disrespectful. I read your frustration and felt sorry for you, sorry if you think I disliked you. I know what it is like to work hard, and not get much appreciation for it. So, my apologies, for my debating if it caused you any grief or feelings of not being appreciated. If I didnt think H-T was worth asking questions on, I wouldnt even bother, A friend of mine once told me I was like his engineer father who only saw black and white, and not the grey practical side of things, like techs do. Techs just want to get things done. I do to, but perhaps I am more of an engineer type seeing only yes or no, right or wrong, and no grey area. And perhaps there is a reason why brake lines are replaced in pairs that has not been explained to me. At any rate, two last points and I'm good to go. Use better analogies, like, would you replace all your tires if you get a flat in only one? Because, of course I would replace them all in identical sets of fours if they rotted. And try to give a reason why. Dont say, "I'm a cop, shut up and listen, dont question me, dont ask me why, dont resist, if you dont want me to shoot you." Its just antagonistic. It never hurts to explain why. Lastly, I'm still dyin to know what dire thing will happen as a result of only replacing one bad part? In other words, how will the new part cause the other good parts to fail, as suggested by slowcivic2 with his compliance rhetoric theory ?

 

Yeah, this is bullshit. There are several different standards for brake fluid such as DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5, and DOT 5.1. Each braking system has to be able to play with its particular fluid as of its release date and each has to be backwards compatible.

That means old cars can use higher number rated fluid but new ones can't play with older fluid so yeah whoever told you that is a moron.

And the reason the systems are split diagonally is so that if you have a leak such as the one you have, you will still have stopping power from the other system or you risk dying. You probably didn't know that. That's what has prevented you from dying while you've had that leak.

I have never had a brake fluid leak but then again I make sure I flush my fluid whenever I see it getting dirty. But if I did have a leak you can be sure I would be replacing both sets of lines. As fluid gets old it starts boiling over and those bubbles cause you to lose braking power, hence squishy pedaling.

Just because most of the ase techs don't give a flying **** to help anyone online, doesn't mean that applies to everyone. There are some people that have a heart.

 

 

Yeah I would have done both just because.... obviously you already had one failure. Does it absolutely need replacing. I don't know I haven't seen the hose to make a judgment call it. Anyway it has been an interesting read. Humorous at times, completely ridiculous at other times, but highly entertaining.