Looking for feedback on the Professional Products Harmonic Dampener Part#90050...preferably someone with experience. Not my cousins, moms, brothers, dads son ran one..

I am building my B20V and need a single row crank pulley. I have a buddy selling one brand new in box for $60. I tried looking up some info on it and didn't find much...just everyone raving about ATI or Fluidampner. Any input is appreciated. Open to suggestions as well. If a stock one is the best option I'll locate one locally.

This motor will see 9000+rpm at the track. Will be babied daily.

Thanks

 

CTR N1 pulley?

 

I have heard bad things about the CTR pulley not dampening well and being hard on bearings. Again, I have no first hand experience w/ anything besides and OEM 3 row pulley and would like to save some weight if possible w/o damaging my motor and w/o breaking the bank by purchasing an ATI @ $450

 

Dampening makes something moist, damping is the reduction of oscillation. :-P

Stock or ATI would be my only choices for a crank damper.

 

LOL auto-correct is a bitch

Any reason why you would not recommend the Pro products piece? I see everyone is on the ATI train but WHY NOT the PP? Is there something wrong with it or is it just not "the brand"?

 

CTR N1 pulley is an OEM Honda part so....

 

Yes sir it is. I'm wary of it though because it offers NO dampening. It is a solid metal pulley. I do have the full rotating assembly balanced BUT I like insurance. I just don't want to throw this build down the toilet.

What is everyone else running on their 2L's that get revved out?

 

Why do you think you need your crank dampened? Obviously Honda knew it didnt need it...

And if you think the stock pulley is actually a crank damper....

 

I will be running the pp again on my new build. Last motor saw 9500+ rpms. No problem.

And to whoever thinks the n1 is gold because its an oem honda pulley, news flash. Its garbage.

Pro products is a cheaper alternative to a fluidamper or ati. Great piece.

 

Please share your personal experience(s) of mass engine destruction from a N1 pulley!


Go ahead, ill wait.

 

It's not a crank damper, but it does have rubber in it to help with harmonics to a point. I am not saying the N1 is garbage, but I have also read some articles about people ASSUMING they had some bearing issues from harmonics that were running that pulley. Could be a coincidence when they swapped pulleys it stopped. I'm not a professional, I'm just looking for some insight from experienced users so I don't throw a motor down the drain. Given professional products reputation (being pretty decent) I don't think they would put out a pile of junk. Again, just looking for people who may have experience. Not trying to make this a debate about stock vs. N1 vs. aftermarket...they all have their pros and cons.

 

A CTR N1 pulley is just that, a pulley, not a damper. It was intended for race use only (where engines are rebuilt frequently) and does not belong on the street.

My first choice for a damper would be ATI... Fluidampr a close second.

However the "Professional Products Harmonic Dampener Part#90050" is SFI 18.1 approved so I wouldn't be too afraid to try it... especially for the price you can get it for 93egSLEEPER.

 

You say theN1is not a damper, which is correct. But saying it doesnt belong on a street car is incorrect, because the stock pulley is.not a damper either. Does it have a small band.of rubber in it? Yes, but that is not for damping frequencies. Its is to help.prevent the tranfer of the engine pulses to the belt driven accessories, which would cause umwanted NVH in an.OEM application. Some.of the early D and B series pulleys had no rubber in them

 

Had 2 cars customers cars blow ups oil pump gears on the dyno. Both were turbo setups 4-600 whp with CTR pulley....

Also had 2 friends turbo cars blow up oil pump gears on the street, one was unorthodox racing aluminum, the other ebay aluminum...

Bottom line is there is a point where crank harmonic dampening is vital to have, and it varies based off a lot of different things. Its not even up for debate. Oem pulleys have a specific mass which does dampen. A weak stock B16b is very unlikely to need a serious damper for longevity under any conditions. However, a higher powered all motor or forced induction car cannot justify ctr pulley by saying "its an oem part, crank damping not required" Silly statement to say the least.

But the proffesional products parts line seems to to pretty weak, do they even have an engineering department? You get what you pay for....

 

N1 doesn't belong on anything but a B16B, to be totally correct.

You can damp just fine using nothing but mass, but it's going to be limited to a very specific configuration.

If I was planning on taking it to 9k regularly, I'd be all over one of the nicer dampers it's just good insurance.

 

Take this for what you will but... Back in 03-04 I had a ctr pulley on a stock b16 for about a year without issue. I then installed a turbo kit on that motor(no other changes) that put down 290 at 10psi. That setup lasted about a month before the oil pump gear came apart. I am fairly certian the oil pump failure was due to the pulley used.(ctr)

I only use oem or ati from now on, not work the risk of a high dollar motor over a crank pulley that really isn't doing much for me anyway.

Edit: on topic, I just google pp damper and pretty much everyone say's they are junk. They come loose don't, have timing marks, ect. There is probally a reason the guy is selling it for for so cheap.

 

I found that same google search. Strange enough mine does have timing marks though. Those threads were back from the early 2000's and on higher HP boosted cars (which are just harder on everything) I am set on NOT running the CTR, have been from the get go. I can't REALLY justify spending $450 for an ATI, this is not a race motor by any means. The rotating assembly has been balanced ( crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, pressure plate) so harmonics/vibrations should be at a minimum to begin with.

Again, not trying to beat a dead horse but I know more than 3 people have had to run this other than the 3 that said they blew them apart 10 years ago on their boosted builds. If it was as bad as they made it sound you'd think there would be a ton more on them. I may try to source a stock GSR pulley to have and continue to research the topic.

 

Hi! My name is Ivan and I work for Fluidampr. I want to help answer some questions and provide facts...
The OEM unit IS a harmonic damper a.k.a. balancer. The elastomeric (rubber) material is tuned for a specific frequency of harmonics for the way that engine is designed by the OEM. Therefore Honda does believe that a damper is necessary as 99.9% of all engine manufacturers do.

Although I may appear biased I can tell you from experience as I travel the country working with top engineering firms and engine builders performing TVA (torsional vibration analysis) and lightweight un-damped pulleys do nothing to control torsional vibrations and can be detrimental to the life of internal engine components.

ATI may be a competitor but I can confidently say that Fluidampr and ATI are so far ahead of the competition, whether it be OEM/aftermarket dampers or lightweight pulleys, it is not even close. This has been proven during testing in which torsional vibrations when properly controlled consistently put up higher H.P. and torque numbers and lead to longer component and engine life.

Now where I am biased is the Fluidampr. This is due to the viscous design. Viscous technology never wears out in a performance or street application. Change the damper once and it will last the life of the engine. Also the viscous design allows the damper to function properly at all RPM's vs. a narrow bandwidth found with rubber based dampers. Again, the OEM damper is designed for the engine the way it comes from the factory. You start changing OEM parts with performance parts and this may cause a change in harmonic frequency which causes the rubber damper to work harder and wear out much quicker then what it was designed for.

I am happy to answer any questions you may have regarding torsional vibrations and damper solutions.

I can also be reached at ivan@fluidampr.com

Thank you,
Ivan

 

Thanks for the information and insight

 

And just to throw my fart in the wind..


I bought a Pro.Products fuel rail and wanted to convert it to -6AN. I looked all over google and couldnt get a definite answer on what thread size and pitch they used.

I contacted P.P. to get my answers who put me in touch with their tech department. This "tech" department couldnt give me an answer either because they didnt know.


So after bringing the rail to a hardware store and finding the right size and pitch, I finally ordered the correct fitting for the conversion.

So.. If they couldnt tell me something simple as a rail tells me their products arent worth a ****. Most likely made in china like Blox, Junk2, Bisi, etc

 

I appreciate the information guys.

FWIW I am going to pick up a stock GSR pulley as well and once I get ready for the final drop in and install I'll see how big my ***** are feeling as to what I run. The PP unit has only failed (from what I've found) on more extreme duty builds. 450+whp turbo setups. Users I have spoke to with mild NA setups seem to have good luck with them. If I were paying full price I wouldn't consider it, but for $60 I'll get it and hold on to it. I don't know how some of these guys had crank bolts come loose, or the small bolts on the unit back out. They spin w/ the motor...if anything any vibration SHOULD tighten them.

I'm open to keep the topic going, feel free to throw whatever comments you may have out there.

 

delete, X2 post

 

If your buying the pulley new, check the price of the itr pulley. It was less then a gsr when i bought mine lol.

 

^ Was about to say the same thing.

FWIW at this point, I opened this thread in the first place because I thought it would be about the OE style PP dampers. I've been running one on my daily for 2.5 years / ~55k miles at this point with no issues.

I wouldn't mess around with a used pulley, it's likely dry rotted to crap or generally worn out at this point.

 

My buddy has a spare GSR pulley for $40...I'll check pricing for a new one.

Thanks for the input. That's good to hear. The only thing I have that it keeping me on edge is guys saying the 6 hex bolts worked their way loose somehow...I just don't want it coming apart. As I stated, seems strange they came loose, they spin the same direction as the motor so if anything they should get tighter...unless I'm thinking backwards