I am looking to build a fast fun street car. I have a basic idea but need a few suggestions. I would like to build a 92-95 hatchback, and these are my plans so far...

- B16 SIR-II (with LSD), B16B, or B18C-R
- lightweight flywheel / clutch
- B16 transmission with 4.785 final drive
- intake / no cat / 2.5" exhaust
- GC coilovers / koni yellows
- full energy suspension master kit
- ITR sway bars front and rear
- strut brace front and rear
- rear subframe brace
- 4 wheel discs
- stripped, sound deadening removed, possibly lexan rear windows and hatch window
- corner balanced by me with father in laws scales

My father in law builds circle track cars so I have access to a full shop. I have been around cars since I was very young, and I went to college for auto as well. I do have a short list of questions though...

1 any reason not to go with a tight geared transmission ?? I very rarely go on the highway and spend most of my time driving back roads
2 would GC extended top hats benefit me at all ?? I do NOT want to slam the car, and it is my understanding their main purpose is to restore suspension travel due to lowering.
3 what kind of life span could I expect from spherical bearings ?? I have not looked in to exactly what I can replace with them but know they will not last as long
4 anything you would change ?? aside from the stripped part. I am that weird guy who would rather drive a stripped honda with no sound deadening than a cadillac on a daily basis.

 

 

are you looking for a cliff notes or am I violating a rule ?? i tried making the picture bigger but the only words i can make out are the hellno im not reading this, i apologize for the crappy work computer

 

Paragraphs! Break your first post down into manageable reading bites. No one wants to read through one long block of words.





eH.

 

That's the whole point of that picture - it's a disorganized wall of text that is painful to read. You aren't breaking any rules, but you'll generally get better results if you make your posts easy to read, which is done with proper formatting and sentence structure.

Start off by reading this. A lot of your questions will be covered there. Then, give this thread a read. If you have specific questions after that, feel free to ask. As your thread sits now, it's very non-specific, and non-technical, and it wouldn't surprise me if it gets locked up shortly.

 

You graduated high school in 2002, that would be 12 years ago, so you must be somewhere around 30 years old now - am I correct? How is it possible that a 30y/o person can't grasp the meaning behind that picture?

 

correct I am 30. with all due respect I could not read the picture well enough on my work computer to be able to tell what it was. I was under the impression I had broken a rule. I apoligize to all. Thank you for any who took the time to read my block of text. I will pm a mod to lock the thread, I was not sure the correct place to put this so I will clear it out of here.

edit - I clearly came off wrong and apoligize to any I have offended. Thank you for the links but I have read them a few times. I do have a plan, and I have been over the basics many many times. I guess my main questions where about aftermarket bushings and what can and can not be spherical bearings, and how I can recapture the freedom I felt in my first honda. But this clearly was the wrong place to post this, and I guess I should be quick and to the point and avoid long posts. Thanks to all anyways

 

You're in the right place, you just need to make it a little easier for us to help you. There's nothing wrong with long posts, you just need to work on organizing them a little better. You jump from engines, to suspension, to bearings and bushings, and trying to keep track of what's going is painful. Just try re-formatting your original post a little better, and we might be able to help you out.

 

I have edited the first post. Im not sure its any better but I hope so. Thank you for your time everyone.

 

Okayy.. now that we have the original post fix3d..

Loks like your building this car a little overkill for the occasional spirited back road drive. Spherical end links, top hats, this and that arent needed.

Figure out what your ride needs as far as replacement suspension, chassis, etc. Then save your money. Once you past the point of no return.. you wont get any money back of what you put into it. Ask me how I know.

Get an idea of a realistic goal. Search google for "building your dreamcar 101" and read that.

 

I have read the building your dream car post. Thats exactly what I am planning. I made a huge mistake getting rid of my hatchback. I have not found one since then with no rust.

I asked about the top hats as I dont think I need them, but if there is some benefit I am missing I wanted to make sure I was getting all I could. The spherical end links may or may not happen, but I figured I would get some opinions on them.

As far as getting nothing out of it...story of my life. I bought my first hatchback for 2 grand and sold it for 50 bucks cause I was moving to florida and it was in no way legal outside of the area I drove it (straight pipe, custom made header from a motorcycle exhaust manifold, no emission equipment at all, etc). Its a double edged sword really, I can get away with about anything you can do to a car up here, but taking it out of state gets real sketchy real fast. But since I have settled back in up here I have no intentions to leave again so Im doing it full effect this time. My best friend spent a decade beuilding his dream car, turboed it, drove it 3 times over the course of 3 years and melted a piston. We tossed a stock motor back in it, and he sold the car for 1000, the motor alone had 10k plus in it with turbo setup, pistons / rods / porting / all custom manifold and piping etc.

In the end, I am not concerned about what I get out of it. I do not have a limitless budget, but I will not compromise one bit. I want to build it the way I pictured that first hatch coming out combined with what I have learned over the last decade. I have helped countless friends build cars, and built cars specifically to sell, but I have never really built one for myself. Its time I build my ultimate daily driver, a borderline race car.

 

Just buy my car..its an ultimate DD and its for sale


Alot of peoplemay dis agree with me. But if its for street then you want torque. Id ditch the b16 idea and go B20. Paired with a gsr trans and your good to go.

 

I have put a lot of thought in to torque. Im up in muscle car land, so I hear it all the time. I do agree with you too, torque does make for a more enjoyable street drive. Really Im not even sure why I am considering the B16, its always been B18C or B16B with B18C rotating assembly. I appreciate the offer to buy your car, but I would prefer to build it myself. I will take a look though, I have an 8 month old and Im sure my wife would prefer I dont spend all my time in the garage lol.

 

This is all assuming you plan on staying NA. If you plan on going FI, ignore all of this. If you want a motor you don't have to do anything with, a B18C5 is the motor you should be looking at. If you don't mind putting some wrench-time into a motor, Get a B20, and slap an SI/GSR head on it. If you don't mind building a motor, and your budget allows, get an LS block, GSR crank and head, forged rods, forged, high compression pistons, some good, meaty cams, the valvetrain to support them, and put it together. If you don't mind building a motor and your budget allows even more, start looking into stroker kits for the LS/GSR.

Torque and low-end is definitely the way to go, and the above options will give you progressively more torque (and power, in general). Forget anything 1.6L even exists.

As for transmission, if budget allows, get a CTR/ITR transmission. Yes, they're $1500, but they're the best-geared transmission you'll find off the shelf for a B series Honda, and they come with the factory LSD. Game over, done, end of discussion.

Suspension-wise, read this thread. It has everything you need to know about your suspension. I'm personally a fan of polyurethane mounts, bushings, and everything else, but they do require a tad bit more upkeep than standard rubber pieces. If you don't mind lubing them up every 3-6 months, get them. If you want something more "set it and forget it", go with HardRace rubber pieces. OEM style, harder rubber. I know of a couple people who have used metal spherical bearings in replacement of OEM rubbers, and they're harsh, noisy, and expensive - personally, I wouldn't.

Exhaust-wise, if you plan on getting the car tuned (you definitely should, but $), then something nicer like a PLM header would be worth your while. If you plan on running the engine on a stock ECU, just get some cheak $50 header off eBay. Regardless of which header you get, attach it to a 2.5" stainless exhaust (whatever you can find on eBay for cheap), get a high-flow cat, get a resonator, and get your choice of muffler (I'm a fan of the stupidly cheap and good-sounding Thrush Turbo muffler). Bolt on what you can, and have a welder install the rest. I know you said you didn't plan on having a cat, but first off, the MPG loss is negligible. We're talking 1-2 WHP. Second off, cars with cats have been shown to have more torque in the mid-range. Once again, the numbers are negligible, but you don't need to pollute just to have a quick car. The entire system will also help to quiet down the car, and if your wife is like 99% of the population, quieter is better.

 

Okay so now that we can all read the original post and not go into a seizure, I would go a different route than a b16 or even a b18. If I was you, and actually I kind of am since I'm currently searching for an EG hatch myself, I would go the H2B route.

The H series powerplant offers great hp/torque numbers right off the gate and it doesn't take much at all to add onto those. You didn't say if you were going NA or boost, I would imagine NA since you didn't mention boost, and as a naturally aspirated engine, you can easily be in the 12 second range with the H22/23.

Regarding all other items, the top hats wont hurt but they may not add much to the mix. The spherical bearings are a bit of an overkill for my taste.

All else sounds good imo.
Good luck and have fun!

 

If it were me, I'd skip all these swaps. Find a 92-95 hatch with a healthy d16z6 and boost it to 200whp with a quality kit (appropriately sized turbo that's super responsive) and some arp headstuds.

 

There are a million and two different ways to get what OP wants. It all comes down to what he wants to spend, and how much power he wants.

 

 

ok so...

I agree completely with either a CTR / ITR trans, for the LSD, and if it did not come with a 4.7 final (B16B) it would get swapped in. I like my transmissions close geared. Had I kept my first hatch I was going to swap to whatever the close ratio d trans is, I had a vx so the longest d trans lol.

I have basically ruled out boost. The only thing I would boost would be the B16 but I dont think I will be going that route. I have considered a boosted d-series, and the D I had took a hell of a beating and never skipped a beat. I may do a "junkyard" turbo d-series to screw around with while I sort out the b-series driveline, order parts, etc.

I have also looked in to H2B but that was a long time ago. Looking quickly again I have a few concerns with the swap. First is the oil level and the engine being at a different angle than intended. I know some people just run more oil but I am not sure how I feel about it. The other aspect that concernes me is grinding the block. I know its proven to not be a big deal but I still dont know how I feel about it I am going to start reading through the H2B thread but at 800 plus pages I am not sure how far I will make it. Im looking for factory-ish reliability, thats why I am considering the B18C with a few bolt ons and maybe some cams but likely just bolt ons.

I also decided against the spherical bearings, I would rather grease bushings every few months than replace bearings every 6. Thank you for the suggestions everyone.

edit: I have heard many good things about KW coilovers, and rode in a BMW with them and thought it rode well. How do they compare to the GC / Koni setup ?? Do they do anything better or can the GC / Koni do everything for less ?? I am thinking I like to tinker so the independant compression and rebound adjustment interests me.

 

The KW brand is a well known quality component. You can't go wrong with either setup. I think you shouldn't waste money on a junkyard turbo D setup if you're planing on going with a swap later. Why waste time and money?

Make a plan of attack and stick to it. Do all your reading and research beforehand so that once you get into buying mode, you're not wasting money and doing things over and over. If you wanto to stick with a b series engine, then either go for a b18 or a b20/v plant. The b16, although a fun high revin' engine, is really under-torqued and will probably leave you wanting more down the line.

Do it one and do it right. Research the **** out of every option, including pricing, tuning, current parts availability and such.

Have fun!

 

This^ always helps, though your post isn't as long as some.

 

Um, exactly which transmission are you looking at using? The USDM SI transmission is the same as the USDM ITR transmission for gearing, the ITR just has an LSD, and the difference between those and the JDM 98-01 ITR are marginal. The JDM CTR (B16B) transmission is also the same as the USDM SI transmission, plus the LSD. The tightest of them all is the 98-01 JDM ITR. All of the above have crazy tight gears - so much so, that it isn't worth being picky on which one you use.

 

um, I am looking at using either a B16A or B16B transmission (3.23, 2.105, 1.458, 1.107, .848) as I want the tightest gear spacing. I will then add a 4.785 final drive to make it the shortest possible gearing using OEM components. My reasoning for doing it this way is a JDM ITR transmission will be more expensive (I think, correct me if I am wrong), and need 4th and 5th replaced instead of the final drive.

Whatever transmission I go with will either have a factory honda LSD or an aftermarket (most likely quaife).

I am pretty set on a B16B swap, then adding the 4.785 final drive. If that is not enough, I will get an ITR rotating assembly and rebuild the bottom end with that.

I understand I am being picky but I think I am confusing people by saying budget will be tight, but at the same time I dont want to compromise. I am not concerned if this car takes me years to build, as long as I build it the way I want and dont sacrifice in the name of cost.

 

I wouldn't use the B16 transmission, yes the gears are shorter so you'll pick up fast but once you reach the max on that transmission that's it. If I was to give you advise I'd get a GSR transmission. I'm building an all motor high compression motor and I'm using a GSR transmission for it. Its the perfect transmission I believe and just put LSD in it.

 

I will second the GSR transmission over the B16 or a super-low geared trans. The GSR is actually pretty closely geared, I've owned and driven both and I vastly prefer the GSR trans.