I've been searching H-T for hours now looking and comparing shocks and springs. My problem is that I'm poor and in college. I'd love to order up some koni yellows and GC coilovers but I can't. I have recently starting autocrossing (4 events under my belt) and have gotten addicted to it. In the last race, I got the car on three wheels around three different corners. I am completely maxxing out the stock suspension. Would a set of KYB GAB and either H&R sport springs or Eibach prokits do me any good? Am I wasting my money on these? The car is a daily driven, taken snowboarding every weekend kind of car so I can't do anything totally racecar to it. Just looking for some honest answers and opinions. Thanks for reading this long paragraph and helping a poor college kid try to have some fun on the autocross track!
Aaron


Here's an idea on how much I need to upgrade!


[Modified by Volcom, 1:50 AM 11/1/2002]

 

1) Tell your passngers to keep their hands in the window......

2) With only 4 events you're not even close to maximizing the use of the stock suspension... at all... you dont 'need' springs or any of that nonsense. Sure it might make the car handle better but then with the addition of springs you need about $10,000 worth of other stuff to be competitive...

3) Keep running on stock suspension... on crappy street tires... with the roof rack... ride with experienced drivers in the region, have them ride with you and give you pointers. Work on being smooth and carrying momentum. If you must upgrade something, then upgrade the shocks - Tokico, Koni Singles, KYB AGX (all adjustable) are good shocks to look into.

4) Keep having fun with it

 

Yea, what RJ just said! Very sound advice to follow. What most newbie autocrossers don't realize at first (and I was one of these, too) is that to focus your attention on the car and it's setup is to overlook the single largest and most important variable in the "go-fast-autocrossing" equation: the driver. If you're able to extract all of the potential from a car in it's stock form, you'll be much better off than if you're focusing on the car. That said, driving a stock car to it's fullest potential is not easy -- they don't respond quickly to driver inputs, they often feel heavy and sluggish, they can have mucho body roll, etc. So once you figure out how to drive smoothly, carry a tight line and momentum, and use the brakes to your advantage, you'll be soooo much better off. Your best money right now would be spent on an Evolution driving school, and getting as much seat time as you can afford at autocross events. Good luck.

 

To answer your question I would think that a set of KYB AGX's and a good set of springs will do you well for the price. Come on guys its not like he's talking about Zeal Super Functions or something. Unless you are worried about what class you are going to be in I say go for it if you have the money, but I'm sure you'll have fun no matter what.

 

It might feel like crap, but driving on the stock suspension is a good way to learn how to go fast. Are you fast on the stock suspension? That would be an indicator of how much you are maxing it out.
Now, for my bit of advice: Rear anti-sway bar.
Cheaper upgrade than 400 dollars in shocks. Just as important.
Leave the shocks and springs. Changing one without the other will not fix your itch.
Changing both will cost you more money than you want to spend.
After the sway bar, look at tires.
Good luck. Keep at it.

 

I would agree maybe on shocks and nothing else. But like everyone said Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, and 5% CRAZY MOJO!

Spending money to fix the driver is the best investment you can make. All newbies think they are awesome Michael Andretti drivers, whereas infact you are prolly 90 more autocrosses from that. Take the suggestions from everyone. Your car is fine.

also read my help page: http://home.dejazzd.com/mlouie/autocross.html

 

My first autocross event was stock and of course, with a-lot of body roll. By my third event I had koni yellows and eibach sportlines - 8 months later I got some GCs. I can't stress enough that if you are going to buy something, don't do it half ***. I mean don't go out and spend over a grand on a shock/spring combo, but make sure whatever parts you do put on it - you will be hapy with for some time. That's why I bought the koni yellows from the get go, I could have gone with a cheaper shock, but why if you can somehow finagle it.

AutoX is going to teach you how to drive (hopefully) . Don't worry about buying something good until you can afford it, just have fun driving. Who cares if there is a-lot of body roll.

 

that doesn't mean anything


but seriously, get some seat time first, it really does help, i personally know a few people that drive complety stock cars and do completly amasing with them, practice, practice, practice... i did not wait to start modifying and now i am in a street mod class with maybe 10 races under my belt, its fun, but i can definatly tell that i could be alot faster if i was a better driver

if you want to spend a little, tires will help you the best, like azenths (their cheep too ) and just get out there and learn as much as you can

 

Yeah look at me I'm lowered, stiffer springs, wider wheels and tires, stiffer shocks.

 

Take some of those magnets and stickers off your car and you wouldn't have that problem.

 

Bro what are you talking about??? I dream of getting my Civic doing a dog leg in corners!!!!!!! That shitzzzza is the bomb!!!!!

As to shocks I love my AGXs (only $368) and they should level out your ride some what and give you adjustability to keep your daily driving pleasent too. But finally plan out what mods you want and how much money your going to need to buy these parts and in what order: Springs, shocks, swaybar, tires, strut bars and other mods.

 

Hey Mike... do you bottom out your shocks at all? certainly looks like you would be.

back on topic...
No matter how fast you think you can drive (and this goes for everyone!!!) you can always go faster. Experience and seat time will answer the questions of what kind of suspension you'll need on the car. Seat time will also allow you to save up and get something that you won't regret buying. I've got stacks of springs in my basement as proof of my mistakes!


[Modified by Watkinsm3, 7:59 AM 11/1/2002]

 

If you can't afford to get good equipment save your money. Plus, with a daily driven car (and one that drags you up the ski hill several times a year) you will NEVER be competetive in any class other than stock. If you really want to have a fast autoX car your supsension to be quite low and very stiff.

So you have a choice, save your money and develop your driving skills in stock and possibly win some events.... or you can spend money you don't have to get your *** handed to you by cars that aren't driveable on the streets (let alone the ski hill) in a higher class. Believe me, stock is the way to go. I decided this year not to move up until I win the provincial championship in stock (don't tell anyone I said that though, in case I change my mind).

 

once you start picking the inside rear tire OVER cones.. only then do you need to modify your suspension

 

Not that I know of. I'm only dropped about 2" front and 1.75" rear. No bouncing around corners. It corners pretty flat.

 

Thanks everyone for their opinion. I know about the passenger and keeping their arms inside the car. The dude riding with me is an idiot and I keep telling him that. I plan on staying in the STS class since my mods bumped my into it. I have 16" Slipstreams with 205/45/16 Kumho 712's and an ITR rear swaybar.

So, everyone's opinion tells me not to upgrade? I just feel like the car could be faster if it was lower and had better shocks (stock ones have 135 K on them ). I have ridden in a guys car in STS here that has 6 years of experience and is always consistantly on the top of STS. He also rode with me and told me that I am doing very well for only driving 4 races. I couldn't believe how fast he was taking some parts of the course. I guess that is what I need to shoot for.

Aaron

 

Yeah but you see (I love posting this) you can spend $1000 on a nice coilover system and maybe gain about .5-1 second on a 60 second course. Spend $225 on an Evolution School or $50-100 on a Novice Autocross School and gain 4-8 seconds. I went to one in April and knocked off 2 seconds on a 30 second course. I went from a 36.xxx to a 34.xxx just by changing my lines. And I thought I rocked that course on the baseline runs.

When I started instructing this year I was enlightened by different driving styles with different students. The one thing that helped was turning on the A/C. Why? Novices tend to OVERDRIVE the car trying to get every ounce of hp out of the car. Turning on the A/C sucks some of the hp away from the car so it forces the driver to be smoother.

 

Good call about the AC. I know that I am now focused more on late braking and better lines than when I first started. I am still having trouble looking ahead.

 

Aaron, I'd go with the what the majority of the guys are saying, don't do suspension upgrades just yet, just keep on practicing. And yes I'm in the same boat as you, I need to practice too and I'm in no way good yet. Think of it this way, I have stiff springs and shocks along with sway bars and you're doing as well as I am.

 

I saw someone do this to help them look ahead.

Use painter's tape (2" wide) and cover the bottom half of the windshield. It will force you to look ahead. What I did to teach my students to look ahead was talk the course out to me as we drove. It forces your brain to know what's coming up and how to setup for it.

 

Good tips

 

Do the max modifications allowed in the stock class before moving up. I know I wish I did.

I'm pretty sure you can upgrade the shocks in stock classes so I would go ahead and do that when $$$ permits.

I thought going on 3 wheels was "the way to corner" for FF cars? Really fast CRX/Civic in the Sac SCCA region takes EVERY corner on 3 wheels. Maybe he's on this board even.

Shingo

 

Considering your mods and your budget, I think shocks are where you need to go next. You can get better springs later on. And it's way better to have good shocks with OE springs than the other way around.

That said, all the seat time, practice, and school advice is really on the money, too. I ran my first 8 months with crappy tires (Nitto NT-450's). After my first event, I knew I had bad tires for autocross but I learned a great deal getting every last ounce of performance out of them!

Remember that improving the driver will improve every car you will ever own!

 

Good tip on looking ahead. That would be tough to drive that way! Would they let you drive that way in an event? About driving school, does anybody know if there is anything based out of Colorado. I have never heard of a autocross driving school here.

Thank you everybody for all the great info
Aaron who still is kinda looking at the shocks and springs?

 

Good tip! But I won't talk when I drive on course, I'll lose concentration.