itbs anyone??
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From: Houston, TX, USA
itbs anyone??
So I got my hands on a set of obx, yes I know, itbs. And I have questions regarding the mounting points of some things and some things regarding tuning.
1. Will the map have to be tied into a vacuum block off of the 4 vacuum nipples under the runners?
2. What about iacv?
3. The same question goes towards Iac as well.
4. Can the setup be flipped so the fuel rail will be on top? I'm partial to having my fuel shot in a downward traditional angle versus up and at an angle causing more stress than needed on the injectors and the pulse rate that might be affected due to them being in such an awkward position.
5. How would I even go about creating a base map for them? Assuming the fuel would be the biggest issue after setting the cold start idle, then calibrating the tps for closed and wot
6. Stock throttle cable is ok to use I'm assuming?
7. And if this would be considered as use for a daily, should I run some type of filter over the velocity stacks?
Any help would be appreciated even if it's from multiple points of view.
Zack.
1. Will the map have to be tied into a vacuum block off of the 4 vacuum nipples under the runners?
2. What about iacv?
3. The same question goes towards Iac as well.
4. Can the setup be flipped so the fuel rail will be on top? I'm partial to having my fuel shot in a downward traditional angle versus up and at an angle causing more stress than needed on the injectors and the pulse rate that might be affected due to them being in such an awkward position.
5. How would I even go about creating a base map for them? Assuming the fuel would be the biggest issue after setting the cold start idle, then calibrating the tps for closed and wot
6. Stock throttle cable is ok to use I'm assuming?
7. And if this would be considered as use for a daily, should I run some type of filter over the velocity stacks?
Any help would be appreciated even if it's from multiple points of view.
Zack.
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From: Woodbridge, NJ, Middlesex
Re: itbs anyone??
1. yes
2./3. iacv and iac are eliminated
4. yes, but entry angle to head and to valve seat is whats important
5. its a similar map to manifold except you need to plot a throttle vs. load table.
6. yes
7. yes
2./3. iacv and iac are eliminated
4. yes, but entry angle to head and to valve seat is whats important
5. its a similar map to manifold except you need to plot a throttle vs. load table.
6. yes
7. yes
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Re: itbs anyone??
http://www.hondata.com/help/smanager...tuningitbs.htm
Everything I've read points towards TPS vs. RPM (Alpha-N) instead of the MAP sensor. Some still use the MAP sensor for idle though.
Some quotes from what I found:
Everything I've read points towards TPS vs. RPM (Alpha-N) instead of the MAP sensor. Some still use the MAP sensor for idle though.
Some quotes from what I found:
i used OBX ITB's this year for several weeks, but unfortunately the car was crashed soon after final tuning...
i've polished it inside cuz the factory obx casting is very weak. we've used a vacuum box made of 1cm diameter pipe, to supply the brake booster and map sensor... it should be a bit bigger than i had then the iddles would be better and map sensor would also work more properly....
my experience is that for daily use it was pain in the ***, the car behaves savage a bit, and fuel consumption doubled, which at this amount of torque gain was not acceptable as the car had to be daily driven....
but, as soon as you go WOT, it was fantastic... vtec sound best ever, torque gain... really nice as for a stock h22 with 10:1 CR and H22A7 cams and some 2.5" exhaust, I assume i had around 20-30Nm extra torque and around 10-20hp... much better acceleration on high speed cruising like 60 to 140mph... more convenient overtaking - i could use 5th gear and 'just do it' without vtec, didnt have to shift gears at all...
tuning was painful also, it took some time, we tried with the MAP and TPS... but final conclusion was that we should leave the map at all, only for idles, and do all of it with TPS only.
another things - some aftermarket fuel pressure regulator is needed to work properly, without it it won't idle right, and i used 400cc injectors from some mitsubishi turbo.
so finally i think it's a good deal that OBX stuff even if its chinese, and works much better than home-made ones made of motorcycle throttles - another guy here made it with those, and there was no such power/torque gain as i had....
i've polished it inside cuz the factory obx casting is very weak. we've used a vacuum box made of 1cm diameter pipe, to supply the brake booster and map sensor... it should be a bit bigger than i had then the iddles would be better and map sensor would also work more properly....
my experience is that for daily use it was pain in the ***, the car behaves savage a bit, and fuel consumption doubled, which at this amount of torque gain was not acceptable as the car had to be daily driven....
but, as soon as you go WOT, it was fantastic... vtec sound best ever, torque gain... really nice as for a stock h22 with 10:1 CR and H22A7 cams and some 2.5" exhaust, I assume i had around 20-30Nm extra torque and around 10-20hp... much better acceleration on high speed cruising like 60 to 140mph... more convenient overtaking - i could use 5th gear and 'just do it' without vtec, didnt have to shift gears at all...
tuning was painful also, it took some time, we tried with the MAP and TPS... but final conclusion was that we should leave the map at all, only for idles, and do all of it with TPS only.
another things - some aftermarket fuel pressure regulator is needed to work properly, without it it won't idle right, and i used 400cc injectors from some mitsubishi turbo.
so finally i think it's a good deal that OBX stuff even if its chinese, and works much better than home-made ones made of motorcycle throttles - another guy here made it with those, and there was no such power/torque gain as i had....
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: itbs anyone??
CHEETAH,
I believe you mispoke about deleting the IAT considering it is an essential sensor of the PGMFI algorythm.
IAC can do without by properly balancing the throttles and proper tuning.
TPS based is the way to go with ITB
I believe you mispoke about deleting the IAT considering it is an essential sensor of the PGMFI algorythm.
IAC can do without by properly balancing the throttles and proper tuning.
TPS based is the way to go with ITB
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From: Scandinavia
Re: itbs anyone??
I had some OBX ITB´s, if you want to use it for the street and make it run as good as a normal intake manifold you "need" to change a few things.
Move injectors to the same location as a normal intake (after TB valves) (close to intake valves). Would require machining/bore for injectors and alignment for fuel rail.
Move the vacuum "source" closer to the valves/injectors on all 4 runners (bore/tap), then the hoses goes to a vacuum station and then to the map sensor.
You can use the IACV, but you need to add more vacuum hoses (for each cylinder) and then build a collector/vacuum station and mount the IACV on it.
Then you can tune only by using the map sensor, and being able to use closed loop. Best thing is that fuel consumption is greatly reduced!
By doing this, i could not tell the differance between and normal intake and ITB´s, exept for the noise :D
Move injectors to the same location as a normal intake (after TB valves) (close to intake valves). Would require machining/bore for injectors and alignment for fuel rail.
Move the vacuum "source" closer to the valves/injectors on all 4 runners (bore/tap), then the hoses goes to a vacuum station and then to the map sensor.
You can use the IACV, but you need to add more vacuum hoses (for each cylinder) and then build a collector/vacuum station and mount the IACV on it.
Then you can tune only by using the map sensor, and being able to use closed loop. Best thing is that fuel consumption is greatly reduced!
By doing this, i could not tell the differance between and normal intake and ITB´s, exept for the noise :D
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: itbs anyone??
In order to utilize the map sensor the vacuum tank has to be big enough to support the map sensor accordingly. You can't expect to get a good map reading from a small vacuum block that is a small fraction of a liter in volume that has 4 runners pulling large amounts of vacuum.
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From: Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Hi,
Would disagree with all those who said itbs are not for daily drivers or idling them is a bitch. Had OBX in my car for over a year which was a daily driver and tuned on various setups and ecu right from a chipped ecu running on chrome to a Neptune Rtp and finally a Hondata S300. Injector position was a untouched. It's all about having someone who's familiar with itbs tuning the car.
Used a big external Vaccum cannister and had a rock steady idle Airconditioner working and driveabality like a car with a regular manifold till the time you mash the throttle when all hell broke loose.
You can see my thread for pics and videos.
Jignesh
Would disagree with all those who said itbs are not for daily drivers or idling them is a bitch. Had OBX in my car for over a year which was a daily driver and tuned on various setups and ecu right from a chipped ecu running on chrome to a Neptune Rtp and finally a Hondata S300. Injector position was a untouched. It's all about having someone who's familiar with itbs tuning the car.
Used a big external Vaccum cannister and had a rock steady idle Airconditioner working and driveabality like a car with a regular manifold till the time you mash the throttle when all hell broke loose.
You can see my thread for pics and videos.
Jignesh
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From: Woodbridge, NJ, Middlesex
Re: itbs anyone??
For the others, yes of course you can daily drive with ITBs, however thats for a professional to setup and the OP was asking what he can do. It'll take a good ECU tuner to setup correctly to daily drive, you can't simply slap it on and voila ready to daily drive...i guess that was my point lol.
I've addressed this too many times years upon years ago, hence the reason I was simple short and sweet with my answers (in hopes that OP can search and see some of my old threads on how to get ITBs to work etc - since it was covered many times).
Greg
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Re: itbs anyone??
mine idles fine when cold and hot,
the cold idle is alittle bit lower of a rpm, but run rich at that idle rpm until the engine gets some heat to it because of the temp comp adding in fuel at idle
hot idle is about 900rpm around the 14.6-14.8 range, cold idle is 750rpm and my wideband reads around the 12-13range
I can put a set screw to manually make the cold idle at 900rpm if I wanted but I don't see a need to, ive spend weeks on the tune so far, and I feel it still needs more work
my harness is still has the wiring for the iacv, but its turned off in the hondata program
my iat sensor is mounted up by the filters,
when I buy my single filter, I plan to mount the senor to the bottom of the filter base
the cold idle is alittle bit lower of a rpm, but run rich at that idle rpm until the engine gets some heat to it because of the temp comp adding in fuel at idle
hot idle is about 900rpm around the 14.6-14.8 range, cold idle is 750rpm and my wideband reads around the 12-13range
I can put a set screw to manually make the cold idle at 900rpm if I wanted but I don't see a need to, ive spend weeks on the tune so far, and I feel it still needs more work
my harness is still has the wiring for the iacv, but its turned off in the hondata program
my iat sensor is mounted up by the filters,
when I buy my single filter, I plan to mount the senor to the bottom of the filter base
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From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: itbs anyone??
With ITB's it's just better to start from scratch. Not all setups will react the same to a tune, specially when the sync between the throttles is unknown.
Speed density crossed over to Alpha N......
Speed density crossed over to Alpha N......
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Who the fack changed my title?!
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From: Houston, TX, USA
Re: itbs anyone??
Can you please explain to me how alpha n is used and where I would use or convert to it on crome in order to create a base map for it?
I've also read through research that it's best to start with an itr base then go from there.
Motor is in the car and being tidied up as we speak. So tuning is not that far off for muah
I've also read through research that it's best to start with an itr base then go from there.
Motor is in the car and being tidied up as we speak. So tuning is not that far off for muah
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From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: itbs anyone??
Crome Pro has an ITB crossover function. You have to be using a P30 ROM base in order to add ITB tools. Once you have a P30 based ROM open you can add ITB tools by selecting the ITB option in the plugin menu. You will also want to add Fuel Tools to help get your injectors set up. Oh and don't forget to remove the Check Sum!
If you can find P73 maps that have been copied into a P30 ROM that might be a good place to start from. Or you could try and do it yourself, it's not all that hard.... if you are familiar with coping and pasting cells in Excel it's even easier.
If you can find P73 maps that have been copied into a P30 ROM that might be a good place to start from. Or you could try and do it yourself, it's not all that hard.... if you are familiar with coping and pasting cells in Excel it's even easier.
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From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: itbs anyone??
Nope... the plug-ins come with it. What are you using to datalog your tune?
Have you thought about using the Neptune Demon setup? It also has ITB tools for Speed density to Alpha-N crossover tuning or as they like to call it, MAP to TPS.
Have you thought about using the Neptune Demon setup? It also has ITB tools for Speed density to Alpha-N crossover tuning or as they like to call it, MAP to TPS.
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From: Uvalde, Tx
Re: itbs anyone??
Man I'm really enjoying reading this info, as my motor will be tuned on chrome and in the near future I want to learn how to use it. I'm totally lost on the alpha-n stuff. I will sit by and follow
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Who the fack changed my title?!
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From: Houston, TX, USA
Re: itbs anyone??
I DO have a hondata s300, is it possible to do rtp via the s300, copy the specs and program them into crome pro and run a fixed setup?
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From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: itbs anyone??
No need to burn chips if you have a registered Hondata S300. Yes you can RTP through the S300 using Smanager. The Hondata tuning software (SManager) also has provisions for individual throttle tuning.
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Who the fack changed my title?!
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From: Houston, TX, USA
Re: itbs anyone??
And under what category would I find said provisions? Under tools I'm assuming?
The s300 is for my other car but I guess I can use it for now. What I was really asking is if it's possible to make a hard copy of the settings and burn them to a chip
The s300 is for my other car but I guess I can use it for now. What I was really asking is if it's possible to make a hard copy of the settings and burn them to a chip