I will be running a 85x89 b series. 13.5:1 and b16 head with supertech valvetrain. I haven't chosen cams yet but they won't be stock. I'll mostly be drag racing and it won't be driven on the street very often.

I got a good deal on 51mm TWM itb's a while back and I am planning on using them but I was also considering the skunk2 Ultra race manifold, possibly even the 4 piston ported ultra manifold. Would there be any benefits to switching to the skunk2 manifold instead of the ITB's? I hate asking this stuff but I'd like to get some input on this before I finish the car.

 

51mm seems small to me, I would be runnig the portedUltraRace.

 

The Ultra WILL beat those particular ITBs, even unported. The manifold is designed to fit both GSR and B16 flange patterns, which makes life really easy on racers. However it leaves the entry slightly generic to match both ports. So we port the entry to suit the head that you have and then the runner is smoothed and tapered all the way up to the horns. Its a 50+ cfm gain and on turbo cars and we have seen an average of an 8% increase in power over an unported manifold...so 40hp on a 500hp car and 80 on 1000. Its hard to get dyno data on anything that makes over 1000......but these manifolds are on all the fastest cars right now. They work.

I realize we are in the all motor forum...so back to that On the all motor cars there have been mixed results, and a lot of times it comes down to the manifold being on the wrong engine, or the tuner not spending the time or knowing how to extract the power. If you put a 4.5L big intake manifold on 1.8L 180hp engine or a 220hp 2 liter that was tossed together...you just put too much manifold on the car and its going to lose. If you are looking for power at 4500 rpm for off corner acceleration (what are you doing down there race car driver? LOL) then this manifold isn't for you. If you have a well put together 2 liter or larger engine that is nearing 270-300hp...good cams, good head, good header...then it will benefit from this 3.5L plenum manifold. If you unbolt your manifold and slap this on and don't do any tuning, you may luck into some hp or you may lose a couple. The guys that have competent tuners working these things once they get them on a good solid platform, have all been able to make horsepower gains and go faster.

Finding things that gain or lose power on turbo cars is easy. In all motor you have to be very meticulous about controlling your test environment when we are looking for 2-3% differences in power. Air temp, fuel quality, oil type, making sure no other changes were made that can skew the results...making sure you test the adversaries back to back the same day with the car strapped the same way! A couple weeks ago we spent 14 hours on the dyno testing 4 different sets of kinsler inductions all with minor changes. We saw power + and - 7-10hp on the sets with the smallest changes. On the last set, our tuner (James from Motec...who is very meticulous in his tuning method) found a fueling change that turned the results around....we had to start over and test all 4 again and the results changed. Another 7 hours on the dyno and a bunch of work. He made a comment that he can't believe how easy it is to tune a turbo car in a few pulls because it just doesnt matter ha ha....but we are so excited to see a 2% gain so it is a real challenge and we end up dropping 200 hits on a motor over 14 hours to find a few horsepower LOL All motor curse!!

 

The ported Ultra Street was just finished up this week also...for guys with smaller engines or who want to see power in a lower rpm range. We will be sharing some back to back tests on a good 2.0L for reference.

 

Looking forward to results!

 

4P

 

4P FTW

 

is it a stock B16 head with jsut upgraded valvetrain and cams? or is it ported? perhaps jsut try a simple ITR intake manifold for the setup if its a stock ported head?

 

I've been down the itb road too many times not going back unless it's a set of kinslers. I'm running the ultra now on my 86x95 setup and am going to use the 2liter spacer to make the 3.5 a 5.5 liter.

 

This is interesting as I have been playing with the idea of ordering an ultra race for the wife's car and haven't pulled the trigger yet. I had a B16 head done by you guys this spring and am making pretty decent power with a 2 liter but have an ITR ported manifold now. As it stands now we are making 241whp and 162tq, do you think a ported street manifold would be worth the time or spend some time with the race to make some power?

 

I have to admit that I have lost some interest in the Ultra after seeing Calvin's comparo. I believe he has a very competent tuner and not being able to extract any power out of it whatsoever makes me really scratch my head.

I know results vary, obviously, but NO power gained from a stock R manifold??

 

i think that particular test suggests two things :

- the Ultra street will probably work well on a smaller engine and/or less aggressive 2.0L. i believe Skunk2 listed the plenum volume at 1.82L. Theres no doubt in my mind that the Ultra Race would perform, though ive yet to confirm it myself due to budget.

- it also proves that on your everyday setup, depending on where you want the powerband, you dont HAVE to upgrade to an aftermarket Intake manifold. The R manifold made 255whp for me on 91oct, and i was really impressed. Thats after alot of money was spent on other manifolds including the Edlebrocks, BMC Race, AEBS , etc.

p.s. - i tuned this setup myself. probably wouldve went broke testing all those parts if i were paying

 

That's the thing, i had spent so much building the engine that I just couldn't spend another grand on an intake and throttle body to try it. Now that It's done well this year and made good power I want to try it out. Her setup is likely going into a much lighter car and be a primarily a race car for next year anyway.

 

Whose dyno do you use Calvin?

I wonder what Rocket has to say in here....cuz he was praising Slowsleeper's IM with his 81x89 dyno.

 

If I were the OP, then I would get 4piston headwork + whatever 4piston ported manifold he will recommend mating to it.

 

Every dyno is different.
Every Tuner is different.

I've personal spoken to calvin on a few instances about this and camshafts. His poor results could be do to a lot of things. I think the manifold would probably yield a better track outing then a generic one, but some people can't dyno then track test. Its a lot of time and money to do both those things are once.

I think for calvin's particular setup, the manifold was a poor choice. Overall, I do like it.. But you can't expect to buy a bunch of high end parts, throw em together, and they all work to make power.. most people do that, and well are sorely hurt in the end.

 

I thought you knew me better..

My point that I was trying to make is that he wasn't able to extract at least 5hp out of it over a stock Honda manifold. I would expect a motor of this size to gain something when switching to a Pro series IM over a stock R, let alone a manifold with tapered plenum, but nothing? No gain at all??

 

I think it's indicative of the fact that these big 2Ls just need a bigger plenum.

I'm sure the Ultra Street kicks *** on 1.8l and mild B20s.

 

I tune for Hybridworks on my off days. I've been to 5 different dynojets in my area and they've all read within 2hp under the SAE and STD correction on my engine.






exactly, every highend part does not work well with each other. Thats the fun part to All Motor. To understand the design of a part, and to test how well itll work with another. I've dynoed and track tested back to back all the previous intake manifolds mentioned (VictorX, BMC-Race, PerformerX, and AEBS) ... I have yet to do so with the stock Type-R and Ultra street due to time and money.







to be honest, all the intake manifold gains i got were mediocre. the most i got was 15whp from the BMC-Race but that was all midrange. the most i got up top was roughly 6whp. On the other hand, Ive had big different gains/losses from headers. I think it has to do with the way the head performs and the Cam setup. (also proves that the stock R manifold was a good manifold out the factory)








exactly what i mentioned at first. the Ultra street has a great design but the plenum is only a 1.82L. Thats probably why it worked so well on Tou's (slowsleeper) 's 1.8L. Ive also seen a local go from 237whp (victorX) to 246whp with the Ultra street. It was a b20 with stock head which falls into the mild b20 category.

 

Good topic, I'll be using sk2 pro im on my 2.0L build port matched to my sk2 alpha 70mm tb. Once I finished tuning this setup, I may try for the ultra street or the ultra race version. I'll do back to back dyno test between the pro and the ultra to see what kind of gains I'll get.

 

The plenum volume has to be the killer on the street manifold for bigger engines. Someone should have a spacer machined to bring it up to 2.8 or 3.0 liter to see what happens......would be a cheap option to try. I have access to a street one that I am supposed to put on a 1.8 setup, maybe I'll take it to my buddy who runs his own machine shop and see what's up to build one.

 

It was a general statement, not directed towards you at all.

I was stating what most people do on this site and/or in the Honda community as a whole.

 

People believe too much hype. This is why the wrong choices are made.

I think on mild compression, mildly done built 2.0 this manifold is fine for a street driven type car.

Plenum size is sorely underrated when choosing a manifold. I'll bet any amount of money that on a nice, shelf built 2.0 the Ultra race 3.5L Will probably end up producing the most useable powerband vs the VictorX or the Ultra street, on a B series type setup.

With that said, its a combo of parts and that's where it all begins. Like I original stated, I think with the design of the ultra street, its suppose to increase low/midrange torque while supplying a top end. I'd like to see calvins mph after the manifold at the track because of how I think it will perform. I've had customers that run cams, and make "ok" gains over other camshafts, and then go to the track and make HUGE gains and run PBs. Its the same aspect that numbers are just numbers.

Skunk2 isn't stupid in the least. I just received our Ultra RACE For our Shop car. Its a proven design.

 

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. The BMC had a bigger plenum than the VictorX, and shorter runners. I remember thinking to myself how much I might lose out on in the low/mids , but instead ... It gained everywhere with as much as 12-15 by around 6-7K. Throttle response was better and the car was overall smoother. I imagine the Ultra Race will be even better

The Ultra Street follows a similar design to the Ultra Race so no doubt it's a good manifold. Just that the plenum is too small for the bigger motors. again, I'm sure the Ultra street will perform well on a 1.8L and a mild b20 , so don't let my test make you think otherwise.

 

Does anyone sell a plenum spacer for the street manifold?