I'm doing a complete rebuild on my DD 94 GSR to stock. Only aftermarket is the ARP rod bolts, Kings Bearings and ACL piston rings. Reason I'm doing the rebuild is because it's burning a lot of oil and oil pump is bad and oil pan is leaking. So basically decided to rebuild everything else while I'm at it.

Here is the problem, and yes I've searched for the past 3 days and still can't figure this crap out. While putting the block back together, I've notice if I tighten the ARP rod bolts to ARP's spec, 50 ft. lb, the crankshaft will not spin freely. I even tried OEM torque specs 2 steps, 15ft lbs, and 33ft lbs. Still, the crank will not spin. If i just tighten the nut til it stops but not all the way, the crank will spin fine. Everything has been lubed with STP oil treatment; bearings, crank, pistons and cylinder walls.

If you know what the problem is, thanks in advance! I've been trying to figure this problem out for almost a week now!

 

you need thiner rod bearings.

get your crank and rod to an expert so he can mesure it and give you the proper rod bearings. Tighten with arp's suggested torque

 

I thought u had to machine arp rod bolts on stock rods i could be wrong

 

What are the clearances on your rod bearings? If you dont know, you should not be putting this back together

 

Make sure you are using the correct bearings. A common mistake is to use bearings for a B18A or B18B which are wider than B18C bearings and might cause the problems you are encountering. Here are some King part numbers to help:

B18A/B
O.E. replacement: CR439AM
High performance: CR4337HP or CR4337XP

B18C
O.E. replacement: CR4287AM
high performance: CR4375HP or CR4375XP

Also, the previous poster was 100% right when he said you need to check clearances - don't just bolt it together and hope for the best...

Good luck!

 

I will double check for the box that the bearings came in. Hopefully it's still laying around somewhere in my garage. I clearly remember I bought standard size bearings but it was last summer. And finally putting them in. I'll check on the clearance later on today. Thanks!

I couldn't find my plastigage and been busy with school and work to go pickup one to check the clearance. I will later today.

I got my rods and arp bolts shot peened at a machine shop.

 

here is my measurement with the blue plastigage reading .102mm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acura-Integra-Type-R-1-8-Main-Rod-Bearings-B18C1-B18C5-/300500165404?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item45f734a31c
this is the link and the seller who I bought it from. when purchased, i asked for regular standards. again, I am using those bearings, with ACL piston rings, stock pistons, and arp shot peened rods.

this is my first B series rebuild. i've rebuild a few of z6 and a6 for mini me swap only when i had CRX. never ran to any of these problems. any suggestion will be great. thanks in advance!

 

That's strange...

The numbers listed on the eBay ad are very similar to ACL numbers... they are correct for a B18C, but they are not King numbers...

ACL numbers for a B18C are:
rods - 4B1925H
mains - 5M1959H

Is there any numbers on the back of the bearings themselves? (I'm assuming you don't have the original box.)

Also, .102mm is HUGE! I believe O.E. spec is something like .025mm - .056mm. I'm going from memory, so I could be off some - but not that much. The really odd thing is .102mm clearance would give you the exact opposite result - it wouldn't lock up, it would be too loose. Please double-check what's going on.

 

Yes, after rewatching Evans Tuning video on YouTube and measuring the clearance, I notice mines was way bigger then what he said. And the pictures shows the part number of the bearings. Second picture shows the item on King Bearings actual site.

 

Just curious, why did you decide against using oem bearings?

 

I've used king bearings on 3 of my single cam rebuild before and never ran into any problems. OEM here where I live are so expensive too. About $15 bucks for 1 rod bearing, not even a set. I was rebuilding the motor on a budget so I decided to go back with king bearings.

 

OK. Cool. The listing on eBay was a little confusing (what else is new...). We know you have the right rod bearings, so it's not that.

I wonder if the big end of the rod is being distorted when it's being tightened. Unfortunately, this is much more difficult to verify. Unless you have a bore gauge - you'll need to seek the help of an engine machine shop.

 

Its too bad the pictures no longer work, but this was the guide i've used to build a few B series engines. Jeff Evans

http://www.evans-tuning.com/tech-art...d-a-gsr-engine

 

Yea, I was trying to avoid taking it to the machine shop. The locals price range for port matching TB to IM was $200+ and that's ridiculous. Having them check is out of the questions. BTW, you mention about the big end of the rod being distorted after being tighten, and I just notice that the upper bearing does move after removing the rod cap. It goes on snug and tight but it'll budge a bit. I think I might just try and look for the old OEM bearings and see if it causes the same problem.


I read this article before taking my block apart since this is my first B series rebuild. Also watched his video. Great instructions but my situation is totally out of the book for now.

 

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/gsr-arp-rod-bolt-issues-2701458/


I had a bad feeling that the ARP rod bolts might be put on wrong also! Anyone can tell if I take pictures or should I just head back to the machine shop that I got it done from? It's been about half a year now already though. LOL. Hopefully they can fix the problem for me. I have the same exact problem like the guy in the link did.

 

tech@Eaglem, I really appreciate your help! instead of the STP lube oil treatment I was using, I switched over to mobile 1 synthetic. tore everything apart and started over. wipe everything clean with a lint free towel and started fresh. instead of using the stupid socket wrench i was using to spin the crank, i switched over to the breaker bar. it spins now but roughly. better then before.

appreciate the help guys!

 

Nononono do NOT use synthetic oil while you build the engine! Youll ruin everything. Get some engine assembly lube! And do NOT use a breaker bar to rotate the engine. If you have to do that then the engine is too tight! My engine, while built loose, was able to be turned with a small ratchet and a single finger. The entire bottom end with pistons and all could be turned with the same ratchet. But with slightly more effort.

The big end if stock rods REQUIRE being resized because the added clamping pressure distorts the big end. The machine shop must torque the rod bolts to their proper specs, then machine the rod back to a true circle.

 

I agree. I think a machine shop needs to look at it. It may be some money to get them to check and resize the rods, but I would hate to think that saving that little bit could lead to the engine failing.

With pistons and everything installed, you should still be able to turn the motor with a socket wrench. If you have to put the kind of force on it that requires a breaker bar - it's still too tight. I've always wanted to put a torque wrench on a freshly built motor to see what kind of torque it took to turn it, but I've never done it. I would imagine it would be in the neighborhood of 20 ft-lbs or so - but that's just a guess.

Did you ever call ARP and get their opinion on it? That might be worth a phone call. Their number is 800-826-3045.

I'm glad I could help.

 

My rotating assembly, that is, everything minus the head and stuff, barely registered any torque on my bend bar torque wrench. So basically, it requires somewhere between 1-2lbs.
Iirc I read the short block should take no more than 5lbs of torque to rotate. Thats after tge the initial break away torque, which will be slightly higher than the steady torque

 

Thanks for the input. I actually just gave up. LOL! That comment I made was because I know half of H-T guys here are just smart mouth and dont give a sh*t about helping. After googling, and checking up on other forums, H-T is my last resort for asking for help.

Thanks! I will give them a call.


I actually picked up a set of stock piston/rod bolts still attached to each other from a buddy of mine just earlier this morning. Everything looks good, just a bit dirty from lying in his garage too long. I'm thinking about cleaning it up and putting it on the block and see if it spins freely without force. If it does, I will be taking my other set in to get it checked sometimes this weekend if I'm not busy.

So question is, do I just ask the machine shop to resize the big end rod and they'll know what I'm talking about or is there a specific size to tell them? Sorry for a newbie question but this is my first time running to this problem. Thanks fellas!

 

Okay, I just picked up my rods from the machine shop yesterday to get it resized as you fellas mention. Try putting them on earlier today and still running into the same f'n problem! Could not pass 15ft lb at all. So I took all of the 4 rods out and threw the stock ones with stock rod bolts in with the King Bearings. Torqued it down to 35ft. lbs, it spun fine. Then I took it up a little bit to 40ft lb and it still spins. Can the ARP rod bolts be packed wrong? I bought the ARP rod bolts from a local parts store from where I lived last summer. ARP part# 208-6401. On ARP official site it says, Acura 1.8. So I'm guessing it's for all B18s? Maybe the machinist did something to my rods and didn't want to tell me? Anyways, if anyone else have something that will help me out here will be great. I need the car up and going. If not, I will probably have to throw the rods with the stock rod bolts back on and just screw it. But for sure I will be heading back to the machine shop tomorrow and talk to the guy who pressed in my rods and resized it. Thanks in advance!

 

post pics of the connecting rods

 

Here are some pictures. All my rods are exactly alike. My z6 rods before when I had ARP rod bolts put on, was installed the exact same way. So I can't tell a difference at all. But if anyone can, please help.

 

Any history from engine the rods came out of? Maybe they have a slight bend? how are u installing the conn. rods?

 

The rods came out of the block I'm working on. No spun rods or anything. Was just burning oil so i decided to just replace rings, main seals and other little misc things that needs replacing. Just a completely stock rebuild. Is there a way to check if my rods are slightly bent? And what do you mean how am I installing my rods? I think I'm installing the rods correctly. I watched and re watched Evans Tuning video and read his article on putting the block together.