Ok so here's the deal. I swapped in this d16y7 long block that had MAYBE 50k on it. I used all the obd1 parts so it was compatible. It ran perfectly when I first did the swap 'n then slowly over time it started becoming increasingly difficult to start (I'd say a year or so). I started with all the little parts. Both ECT switch and sensor, TPS, FPR, injectors, rail, fuel filter, relay, O2 sensor, distributor (the whole thing mind you and its brand new), wires, plugs. I haven't done the pump yet, but I really don't think that's it because I hear it prime, and I have good pressure. Somewhere around 40 psi.

Now here's what it does, and before you flame me to SEARCH, I HAVE SEARCHED up and down for the last month or 2. When I first start it in the morning ( or afternoon in my case coz I work from home and make my own schedule ) I'll have to crank on it for a few, stop, crank for a few more, stop, I have to do this 'till I start smelling fuel 'n then it'll want to fire. From that point it'll take maybe 6 - 10 cranks before it'll fire ( I'm not holding the key 'till the thing hits like 3000 rpm like this guy I saw on youtube, I'd like to not have to replace my starter again thanks.) So it'll fire 'n idle pretty low 'till I hit the gas 'n then it'll hang out around idk 800 rpm or so. Now when I shut it off 'n let it sit for like 5 mins before restarting, it'll fire right up after like 3 cranks. Just like it should. I'd like to get it to do that all the time since this is my toy, and it looks pretty silly when your toy doesn't fire right up.

So my guess is the ECU since that's what the dood in the aforementioned e-bay video said fixed his.

If anyone else has any input, it'd be greatly appreciated so I don't go dropping coin on this ecu only to have the car do the same damned thing.

 

sounds like you're slowly building fuel pressure at first start. test fuel pressure before you run it.

 

CEL codes?

Have you compression tested the cylinders?

 

I haven't run a compression test recently because it runs too strong ( when it finally starts that is) for that to be a problem. I recently set the timing with a light ( unless that's screwy because I'm using a different long block, but I see the white mark every time the light flashes ). No cel codes. It doesn't misfire or anything of that nature. It just takes an excessive amt of cranking before it fires.

It'll start, and it'll run great after its started. The crank time is also much less when its sat for less than 1/2 hr.

No oil leaks. No coolant in the oil. Nothing insanely out of the ordinary in the performance dept.

 

Knowing the compression numbers when the engine won't start could potentially yield valuable information.

Likewise, have you checked spark and injector spray when the engine won't start?

These are no-start diagnosis 101 procedures.

If you are unable to set the ignition timing to the red mark (see service manual), then the mechanical is off by a tooth.

Does the CEL work?

 

Yes, I have checked spark and injector spray. The injectors are new as are the plugs, wires, and distributor. No anomalies there. I'll check cylinder compression tomorrow, and also see about the mechanical being off a tooth.

This isn't a total no start situation. It just takes quite a bit longer for it to start than it should. I'd say a good 10 secs or more in most cases. This also only happens when I first start it, or after its sat for longer than 1/2 hr.

 

I'd second testing the fuel pressure.

What injectors and ecu are you using?

Has mechanical timing been confirmed?

Ignition timing is set to what?



The white mark is the TDC indicator so if that's what you're seeing with a timing light something isn't right. The ignition timing mark is red and is the middle of a group of three before the TDC mark.

Are you up to operating temp and have the SCC jumped to set ignition timing with a proper idle speed?

 

During the period of time when the engine won't start, it's a total no-start and should be treated as such.

Does the CEL work?

 

That ^^ is quite helpful. I don't remember that being in the manual page I printed off when I set the timing.

Oh I forgot. The Cel light does indeed work. This is my toy so I'm taking care to make sure everything is in working order. I'm just a hobbyist having a lil fun with this civic. Never built one before.

 

The previous owner also told me that the fuel pump had been changed, but I don't know how long ago that was. I've had it for about 2 years. I want to make sure I have this pretty basic d-series good to go before I move onto a K or something.

 

stock injectors and p06

Not confirmed. Perhaps I should do that.

Well I assumed it was 14 deg btdc, but I'll have to confirm that tomorrow. I may have the mechanical wrong.


yes, after the fan has kicked on

 

 

the ignition timing doesn't make sense as the problem in this case. it wouldnt have a hard start condition and then start fine after its been ran. OP- my money is on a fuel pump that is dying.

 

I wouldn't rule it out.

 

I know its been a couple months, but this is just my toy 'n I just let it sit for a while as I handled business. I travel a good deal of time for work. I checked the timing and its spot on at 12 degrees for the most part. Ordered an afpr and fuel pump and I'm about to install all this today to see if it fixes my issue. The fuel pump in it now is as old as the car is so it can't hurt to put a new one in anyways. We'll see if the problem persists once these parts are in it. I can only assume that its the ecu if it doesn't start after these parts are installed.

 

Ordered a chipped ecu so hopefully that helps clear it up. The mechanical timing is spot on this time I'm sure. I still don't see the red mark between the sights when I hit it with a light tho. White mark hangs out between the sights, and the cam marks are alligned perfectly with the head with the UP stamp pointing straight up prior to hitting it with the timing light. I set the light to 12, 14, and 16 as I have an Equus adjustable, and I am not seeing the red mark when I hit it with the light. Idle around 3k during timing with the light as well. This thing has me baffled. I must have it close because now it runs cooler than it ever has ( around 160 on an aftermarket gauge that came with the car ) Cluster temp gauge doesn't work. It idles around 750 rpm and seems to have a great power band with no laggy spots. I guess that's as good as it'll get 'till I get this new ECU 'n have it tuned or whatever.

To answer some of the questions asked earler:
All the other parts on the engine came from the d15b7 that was in it originally so the injectors are newish stock replacements, rail is also stock, intake mani, throttle body, etc etc. The only thing that is newer is the long block which is a d16y7.

 

You say you have the long block, did you keep the B7 crank pulley and put it on your long block or is the crank pulley the Y7 of the long block?

The red mark would represent different times depending on which pulley is on the motor.

I also do not know if the Y7 pulley is dampened, the B7 is not and if the Y7 is, the B7 pulley will cause damage to the Y7 block.

I believe the Y7 pulley has the red mark (middle of the three clustered together) at 12 degrees so the mark just to the right of the middle should be 14 degrees.

This is with the sites on the timing belt cover and a standard plain Jane timing light.... I am not sure how your variable timing lights operate as I have never used them.

 

I did not use the B7 pulley. Everything I read about that pointed to no bueno. I got a chipped 'n tuned ecu on its way here so hopefully that'll rectify this situation. I do know that if I try to get the timing to that mark that the engine idles extremely low and it also heats up pretty quick. As it stands now I have the distributor turned a bit toward the firewall and it idles around 800 rpm ( dunno the exact number since I don't own a scanner, I'm jus going off what the tach tells me ) I like where it sits right now as I've got decent pull across the power band. Even if this is a small honda engine lol.

 

By your description you're using a dial back timing light and your're not using it right.

Set the light to 0 and you should be just advanced of the three ignition timing marks. The Y7 pulley has marks for 10, 12 and 14 degrees, the P06 ecu has a base ignition timing of 16*.

When you put a value into a dial back timing light as you've done, the timing lights flash is delayed by that number in degrees of crank rotation. So as an example, if your ignition timing is 12* BTDC and you set your light to 12 the light flash is retarded by 12 and you should see the TDC mark if the mechanical and ignition timing are correct.

To make it simple set the light to zero.

The "chipped" ecu is likely to cause more issues depending on where you got it. Keep the stock P06 and get it running right with that.