OK, first I did a search....

I read alot of people use Koni yellows, I also read one other thread about someone using Blisteins. Are there any other shocks that work well with race springs for autoXing?

 

 

DUDE!!! define "race spring". define car. define experience.

and if you read alot about ppl using koni yellows, then get em! wtf!


[Modified by Tyson, 3:19 PM 11/14/2002]

 

what springs- eibach race, H&R race, or Neuspeed race

car- civic

will be used for AUTOX

someone on here has to have some experience with Blisteins Someone told me there are awsome with race springs, so I posted this to see if anyone else had an opinion on them. Most likely I will go with Koni yellows

 

Not a "race" spring rate
Getting close but still not a "race" spring rate
Not a "race" spring rate

In all 3 cases the term "race" is actually defined as "stiffer than a standard issue street compound lowering spring". The rates are nowhere near the rates used in actual race applications. Because of this any off-the-shelf will work fine. Your options are:

- Koni Yellows
- Tokico Illuminas
- KYB AGX
- Bilsteins

Listed in the order in which I would buy them. I personally don't like Bilsteins. This is completely unfounded and strictly an arbitrary opinion however.


You actually want softer rates for autocrossing. A true race spring rate is way too stiff for an autocross setup and the car will transition like mud. Race suspensions are not setup for rapid weight transfers. They are setup more to slide. Conversely an autocross suspension on track will feel soft and the car will lean a fair amount in the corners. With this in mind I would tend to think that all of the springs listed above will be good choices for an autocross setup.


Next time don't make us fight to get the information we need to have in order to help you. We don't like to have to do that.

 

The H&R Type R cup kit uses modified Bilsteins and that setup is pretty bad ***. Curpier and I both run that setup. But I honestly don't know anything about off the shelf Bilsteins.

 

I never said I thought Bilsteins were bad. I just have a completely innate dislike for them. I guess the easiest way to explain it is that I woke up one morning, saw a Bilstein ad on the internet and decided I didn't like the colors of the ad. As a result I no longer like Bilsteins.

 

Well i can tell you this. I have neuspeed race springs and neuspeed koni yellows and those rates are too much for the shocks. The ride can get fairly bouncy. I believe the rate on the neuspeed "race" springs are between 500-550lbs front and 400-450lbs rear.

 

Those rates are not real heavy. Some guys here are running upwards of 1000lbs on their race cars.


Konis can handle up to around 500lb springs.

 

They are plenty stiff if the car is your daily driver as well True some people are running very high rates but for the most part people stay inbetween 450 and 600.

 

i agree... perhaps you're too low? this will undoubtedly take away some of your available damper travel.

 

You will want to have at least 1 1/2" of travel if your car is driven on the street. Keep in mind that the springs, Nuespeed Race, are progressive not linear like a true race spring. Even though it might say 500, it is softer for the first part of the travel (compression) of the spring. This variable spring rate can make for some interesting handling on the track @ the limit.

 

shocktec's

 

they dont make shocks, and they're out of business

 

from what i've heard, bilstein sports are designed for lowering springs and have a shorter shock body to retain some bump travel. the koni's do not have this intended use included in their design.

drew-what the heck are you talking about a soft spring for autocross? and a stiff setup transitions slower???? do you autocross? just curious because i used a soft setup one year and hated how slow the car would transition. now i'm running almost the same rates the road racers are and just getting the car to transition fast enough. is the soft spring setup for a car with no front bar? if so, that could explain it.

nate

 

I can tell you on my Civic, 350fr and 400r wothout any bars is too soft.
The car weighs around 1725lbs. I have OTS Koni single adjusts.
Body roll is too much, and now with the ITR rear and
400fr, 350r the front outside tire is WAY overworked.
Ideal camber on a 9.5 wide slick is only around 1.3 degrees.
I'm at 1.5 and the tire rolls way over. Air pressure is not the
answer. The setup is the problem and is not recommended.
Buying a front bar REAL soon...but which one?
Nate you made this choice difficult.

 

LOL! 11 years, over 250 events and 2 class championships before I got bored with it and stopped caring like 3 years ago.
Different strokes for different folks. *Most* (which I said before as well) setups for autocross will see softER springrates than what will be on a road race setup. You need weight transfer for rapid transitions. The stiffer the springs the less weight is going to transfer since it is kept in a neutral location.
I don't remember saying that my post applied to every single car and driver combo out there. However - because of your 1 experience you are saying that I am wrong and what you know about you and your car applies to everyone everywhere.
With a bar. Keep in mind however that the swaybar effectively adds springrate to the car so midweight springs with a heavy bar is equivalent to a heavy rate spring. It is all proportional. If you add a swaybar with heavy rate springs you will take several steps backward - but you will have a road race setup like what the racers are using (since I dare say 99% run front bars). Most people I know however do run at least a stock front bar. Very few will run no bar and if you do not have one then you are at a MAJOR disadvantage in terms of tuning potential.


Give Ben Schaeffer a call sometime and ask him about this. He has been building/tuning autocross cars for about 16 years now. His cars have won numerous national titles. Ask him if my theory holds water because I am SURE that he knows a little more about setups than either you or I.


Drew - Who spent a lot of years working with Ben

 

i dunno....I know some of the DSP integra's on this board run 600f/700r springs...that's pretty stiff....with my OTS yellows, I'm gonna run 500f/600r until I save money for a shorten, revalve, then I plan on 650f/800r range.....but the set-up diffs from autoX and road-racing kinda follow along the lines of saving the tire, or using every bit of the tire possible...i dunno

 

600-700 is pretty high but it is still not 4-digit range.
Autocross setups are designed to transition whereas roadrace setups are designed to slide and keep the tires as flat as possible.

 

well, soft to me is the 400lb range. so maybe i just misunderstood what you meant about "soft". i don't follow you on the "you need weight transfer to transition" though. weight transfer is the same, stiff or soft, provided you are still generating the same amount of grip. how quickly the weight is transferred is a component of shock valving and roll couple. a stiffer roll couple (and corresponding shock valving) will load the tires quicker, thus giving a "quicker" responding car. a soft setup takes longer to travel all that extra distance in roll until it takes a set. all that time is added to your transition time. maybe autocross setups tend to be softer because an autocross car is more likely to be daily driven then a track car, rather then for any sort of handling (dis)-advantage it may have.

e-prep, i've been doing some carrol smith reading and like what he's saying about itsy-bitsy sway bars, or no sway bar at all. 700fr/950rr should maintain your current balance and have the same roll resistance at the front as my car had last year with 600lb front springs and the type r front bar. as i've told you before though, i felt that a super high rear roll couple made the car feel slower, so you might wanna play with say 800's all around or even 700fr/600rr and see if a different balance feels better. the reduction in body roll may significantly alter how your car feels and it may make it rotate a LOT better.

nate