This is my first post. I'm stuck. Engine won't start and here is what I know. Engine cranks good. I have spark and fuel to the fuel rail. I don't know the fuel pressure but I can't pinch off the pressure with my fingers at the end of the connecter at the fuel rail. I changed the fuel filter. I have pulses to the fuel injectors. Check engine light shows no codes. The one strange thing during CEL diagnostic is the SRS light blinks constantly during test mode but works correctly at regular start up. I haven't checked the timing. Can't find a bell housing timing indicator. My Haynes doesn't show the VTEC engine when is talks about the bell housing timing indicator. I'm running out of things to test. Suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Bernie f

 

After cranking for a couple of seconds, pull your spark plugs and see if they smell of gas, that will tell you if the fuel is getting into the cylinder.

The other part to test is a dry compression test.

Fuel, spark and compression are the three requirements.

 

Timing marks are located on the crank pulley, lower timing belt cover, and cam gear (no where near what might be considered a bell housing, opposite side in fact).

I believe the SRS works independently which might mean there's a separate problem.

If all three requirements listed by "TomCat39" check out, look on your fuse panel for the "starter signal" and check to make sure it's not blown and is making a good connection.

 

thanks for the quick responses. I kinda figured my Haynes manual had the timing mark wrong because it was referencing a different engine in the pictures and I couldn't find a access cover on the bell housing. I'll get back on the car tomorrow and post an update.

Bernie f

 

Update, I cranked the engine, pulled all the plugs. They weren't wet but had a gas smell. I checked cold engine compression on cylinders 1 & 2. The compression was 160 and 150 psi. Working by my self I fabricated a remote starter and disconnected the distributor wires. The timing looks close to me. I may have to check the white TDC mark against the #1 piston location again. If the timing belt slid, would the engine still fire?

 

I checked the starter signal fuse and it is good.

 

If you have a bad cylinder on 3 or 4 to where the variance is greater than a certain percent (forget how much) the car won't start or well, won't run might try starting but die everytime. You still need to do the compression test on 3 and 4 to see how the motor is sitting. If you have a friend or spouse who can turn the key for you.....

You should pick up an HEI spark tester, they are only about 7 bucks. HEI stand for High Energy Ignition. The older spark testers won't be as definitive while the HEI will be a simple yes or no for spark and you can also guage the quality of spark, white is good, not white, not as good. You will want to test all 4 cylinders for spark and quality of spark.

 

Also, still no CEL codes after testing

 

I checked the book and the max variation between cylinders is 28 psi. I'll check 3 & 4 tomorrow. I can do the compression test alone. I might try the timing check again. With all the plugs out, I can turn a belt pulley to position #1 piston.

 

I'll pick up a HEI tester tomorrow. The problem started last fall. I tried to start the car one morning. It fired once or twice and then quit.

 

I will dig up a great site for going through the whole troubleshooting process for our older Hondas. I am fearful of my suspicions but you have to rule everything else out first before my worst thoughts are taken into consideration.

I'll edit this post with the URL before the day is over.

Between this site:

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/hon...-of-articles-1

and this site:

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/index...articles_1.php

You can get excellent write ups and the tools needed to troubleshoot every system of the car that will prevent starting.

On the first site at the bottom of the list is the start of the "No Start" articles and troubleshooting.

I've read through quite a few of their articles and the only area I am hesitant of is the wire piercing probe they recommend. I much prefer testing on the back side of plugs without ever damaging any wire insulation. Other than that, those sites are packed full of great information.

 

O.K..........now you have me wondering. What is your suspicion or worst case scenario? The cars been sitting all winter and I have newer transportation but I sure would like to figure out what the heck is wrong with this car.

 

Well if every other system checks out and all the wiring checks out, the last thing on the long list would be ECU but..... There are so many things before that that could cause a no start and you want to rule them out first. I believe these old ECU's are known for the capacitors going bad but it's not an everyday thing either.

That no start guide will get you going through a step by step procedure to rule out every option prior. It's easy to follow and do and uses a good systematic approach.

Also before I suspect ECU I would be looking at the ICU. That guide will take you through the ICU and every other thing that could be the culprit.

 

Thanks for the site information. I read both of them and I'm thinking you are thinking blown head gasket. First thing tomorrow I'm checking cylinders 3 and 4, the dip stick and the radiator. I understand how a head gasket can cause a over heating situation but I don't quite understand how a blown head gasket could cause a no start condition.

 

A blown head gasket could drop compression enough to prevent starting, but I don't actually suspect it's a HG. There is other usual symptoms that present itself with a bad HG that you would have noticed long before it got to a No Start situation.

 

You made your last post while I was typing. Being 70 I have done some rebuilds and short blocks but never anything with an ECU or ICU. A lot of those no start diagnostics I have already done. So now I'll make sure I didn't skip something in the sequence.

 

Post the compression numbers for all 4 cylinders.

Is spark bright white at all 4 plugs? Are the plug wires installed in the correct firing order on the cap?

Here's the diagram for checking the mechanical timing:

 

yes, good spark is a must!

VERIFY THE BASICS BEFORE YOU START ANY OTHER DIAGNOSTICS!! you say you have spark & fuel but have you verified valve timing? i would check this first. a timing belt that jumps a few teeth will still allow compression to build but prevent the car starting. close doesn't count here! THE ECU IS THE LAST ONE TO CONDEMN.

 

Exactly, that's why I didn't even want to mention it and keep saying you have to rule absolutely everything else out first before even going there.

Oh and hey Bernie, just wanted to say... I think it's pretty cool that you are still tinkering on cars at your experienced youth of 70. I hope to be like you some day. Feels like I'm closer everyday but I know better than to believe it. I'm just but beginning to see what that age mongrel has in store for me.

Cheers and I hope we can help you get your Honda licked and back into shape.

Another thought did cross my mind and is rather rare. You did mention your car sat all winter.... Bad gas could prevent starting too. I'm sure you know how to rule that out by spraying starting fluid through the throttle body to see if she fires when cranking... Any who, thought I'd throw that out there too just in case it didn't cross your mind to check and to add it to the list of possibilities.

And the other posts about timing are also great advice. RonJ's posting of the manual timing marks should be a great help.

 

Spraying the throttle body is one of the first things I did. Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll tell you one thing getting old isn't for wimps. My back is talking to me this morning. Timing check, spark check and compression check next.

 

I got side tracked today but I did try to find a HEI tester. My local stores, 50 miles round trip, NAPA, Auto Zone and Advanced Auto Parts did not have one. I bought some adjustable gap tester and it doesn't work very well. Any suggestions for an on line vendor to get a HEI tester. The tester I bought showed spark at all plug connectors but I would like to have a HEI in the garage. Tomorrow I'll give compression and timing another shot.

 

I went to Amazon and have one on the way

 

Sorry Bernie, Amazon is where I got mine cheap and pretty quick.

Was busy swapping the struts on my wifes hatchback to get it back to stock ride height.

Was a bit tired and didn't touch the computer once done last night.

 

My wife is visiting the grand kids, no distractions but the weather won't give me a break. 32 and windy here in PA.

I did another compression check. I'm not too happy with the results.

#1-165, #2-160, #3-110, #4-135.

 

Number 3 might be your issue.

If my memory serves me right 120 PSI is the absolute bare minimum that the engine will run and even that I think is below minimum specifications.

A leak down test will tell you if it's valve related or piston rings. Hopefully it's not a cracked block or head. The other tool you might want to get is the block tester.


This one I posted is twice as expensive as the single chamber but it does remove the chance of false positives.

Or you could get this one:


But you'll have to also order the fluid.

Between the block tester and doing a leak down test you should be able to tell if it's rings/valves or cracked block/head/bad head gasket.