Hey everyone! I wanted to try to clear up some confusion with OEM parts. In this case, I have some water pumps.

What some people do not quite understand is that Honda doesnt make their parts. They call upon NSK, NGK, AISIN, BANDO, KEIHIN, NIPPON, DENSO, GATES and many more. American brands like Gates, Japan like Aisin and I believe Nippon is Korean, even.

So when you go to Honda for parts, it is usually just marked up items from those manufactures. For example here are some water pumps for comparison. These are all HONDA OEM WATER PUMPS. I have an Aisin, keihin and a Gates ( I do think the gates pump below is not the OE replacement, I think it is a cheaper alternative Gates had to offer.)


From left to right: Keihin (used), Aisin(new), Gates(new, non OE?)...


Keihin




Aisin



Gates? Notice the cast iron turbine instead of a steel blade..



All together




Again, I do not want to make Gates look bad. There is no where stamped on the pump "Gates" Not sure if I bought a knockoff or if this is a cheap alternative from Gates. hopefully someone who has some experience with Gates pumps can chime in

Hopefully this clears things up when trying to find OEM quality parts. Especially when the dealer wants 3x the price.

 

I am not sure but I am fairly confident most people know that "Honda" parts are not made by Honda.

However, after market parts typically are not to the same specifications as the OEM parts so are cheaper to buy but also don't last as long.

If you know who makes the part for Honda that you need, you might be able to save a buck, but how do you know you are actually getting the Honda specification part and not a lesser quality part by the same manufacturer? i.e. Cast iron turbine instead of a forged steel turbine.

When you buy from Honda, then you have no doubt it meets the specifications that Honda required for the part. Sometimes that peace of mind is worth the extra dollars.

 

That definitely isn't the same as the Gates pump I installed a few weeks ago...my Gates pump looks a lot more like the first two. Those blades look shorter, which isn't good.

 

Considering gates made/makes(still does akaik) the original "OEM Honda" pumps that came on the cars....that one looks to be a cheap knock.

 

I disagree.

In this respect were are speaking about water pumps and by the look, D-series water pumps and their specifications and the technicalities of OEM and Non OEM.

Please be more respectful with the expression of your opinions please.

 

I bought a whole gates kit. The belt looks good, tension looks good, but the water pump has a big ugly MADE IN CHINA stamp on it but on the other hand it looks nice. I'm not so sure my car needs a timing belt but it very well could have been 60k miles or maybe the whole 145k miles. Plus I want an excuse to replace my valve cover gasket and make the cover look nice.

 

Does your pump look like mine, with the weird cast turbine? Not sure Honda has manufactures in china... SO I would be weary of that pump.

 

Worth noting...
The Aisin pump I have has a part # WPH-002

I googled the # and ebay and amazon have that Aisin pump listed for 30-40.. We get them for 70 at our Honda dealer parts supplier. Hmm...

 

Aftermarket parts (even those made by OEM's like Gates or Exedy or Nissin) are not always spec'd out the same for retail distribution as they are for manufacturers like Honda. Honda can request proprietary manufacturing materials, sub assembly parts, or techniques. They can keep those things as HONDA ONLY specifications via various methods.

A Gates belt you buy at the store or directly through Gates may not be the same as a Gates belt made for Honda and sold through their dealers.

This works the same for pretty much any part....especially if they are assemblies and even more especially if they have moving parts/bearings, intricate castings, special surface finishes, etc.

Also, I believe Yamada makes the Honda original water pumps.

 

I'm sure the majority of us know that Honda doesn't manufacture there own parts, we see the actual name on them. Nissin, Denso, NGT/NTK, Aisin.....there all manufactured from japanese companies. What we DO look for are the quality in the part, how long its lasted and QC. So when we recomend Honda parts, we really recommend the manufactured companies name. Its very rare that anybody has a problem with japanese built or oem quality parts.

 

So...here is a scenario:

-Honda buys a complete pump from Gates. They spec out XYZ bearing.

-Gates cannot deviate from XYZ bearing until Honda says ok. If ABC bearing is cheaper, Gates may manufacture their aftermarket pumps with ABC bearing...but they still HAVE to use XYZ bearing for Honda original pumps.

Honda can also change assembly or part revisions for their own interests. Usually its for cost and quality reasons. This can work out well...or not. Since Honda has a reputation to maintain, their quality checks for anything they use is going to be extremely high. This is what creates Honda's reliability, fit, and finish at the cost you pay for a Honda part.

So if Honda tells Gates to switch from XYZ to ABC bearing for a part that it equips on brand new cars and sells at Honda dealers, it is in the interest of Honda's reputation.....not Gates'. Big companies can garner more control over manufacturing materials and process. OEMs will comply since the business account is so big.

Feel me?

 

What I'm saying is that all the **** you buy from an aftermarket supplier may OR may not be the same as the part you buy at Honda. Even if the same manufacturer builds both.

Gates aftermarket may or may not be the same as Gates Honda original.

 

Understood, but from personal experience so far I've never had any issues deviating from Honda to the actual manufactured part.

 

I haven't seen issues myself either. But issues exist with aftermarket parts more than they do with Honda original.

There are crazy people that have done 20+ years and 200k miles on the original factory water pump and belt. That's a HUGE overshot from expected life. Idk if that kind of overbuilding goes on with the aftermarket stuff.

I always consider the cost vs. benefit. Usually, the way I see it, the slightly higher cost of original parts is worth the benefit. You just have to know where to buy original parts for cheap. The mark up at the dealer is out of hand. Tons of dealers charge crazy margins. Find a dealer that doesn't and it'll be apparent that the original parts aren't much more $$.

For certain things, it really doesn't matter. Spark plugs, or wires, I buy retail afterkmarket, for example. I USUALLY buy clutch kits aftermarket (Exedy) and I'm fully aware that original Honda ones are better. I bought an original Honda clutch for my S2000 that sees heavy track duty (S2000 clutches suck to change also).

 

x2 that does not look the same as the Gates pump I installed either.

 

Good discussion. I added a link to this in my Guide to Aftermarket Parts thread.

FYI: Yamada is the OEM mfr for 5G Civics.

I think that "Gates" pump has been given an unfair deal, though. I.e., I suspect it's not Gates at all.

 

I'll post a pic of my gates packaged water pump later. When I received it and looked at it I thought it was typical white box china crap, I forget why maybe it had a made in china stamp. My bets are on it being okay though, I pay attention to leaks and temp gauge anyway. I really doubt ill have to change it again any time soon tho.

 

What can I complain I got everything minus the cam and crank seals for 65$, there's no way I can get even two pieces of OEM stuff for that price

 

I have a Gates complete kit that I just installed on the B sitting in my bedroom. I've posted pics of it before. That definitely isn't a Gates impeller on that water pump.

 

I just put in a OEM yamada water pump in my 99 Lx, I've had too many bad experiences with anything other than OEM parts and when we are talking about water pumps, I for one don't want to have to go back in and replace a faulty/leaking non oem water pump.

I am on my second oem water pump in 300k miles, not because the other ones went bad, but I replace them every other recommended timing belt change for preventive maintenance. To me oem parts are worth the few extra bucks, because I know they are going to last. My 300k mile original motor and auto trans Lx is proof enough for me to continue using oem parts vs manufacturer spec'd parts

 

I just looked at my pump and its literally the same garbage. I literally called gates before I bought the kit and asked "is the water pump plastic or steel or iron or what?" and they told me steel. If this doesn't move as much water (which I now see as a possibility) and my engine overheats I'm gonna beat up gates.

 

They are now. The original pumps were mostly or all made by Keihin.

 

It appears Gates' factory/warehouse/packing center had a big issue with these waterpump impellers. This is an email I sent to RockAuto, whom I purchased the Gates Kit from. They're looking into it for me

"I contacted Gates Corporation about this issue. Rockauto was given timing belt component kits with the wrong waterpump. The design of the impeller is incorrect.




I would like to have the correct waterpump, please. Thank you again rockauto for being so customer-conscious and helping me resolve this issue.

The pictures detail the problem, I was given the incorrect part. I have provided a photo of the correct design waterpump, both of them are color coded and explicit in what is right and what is wrong."

 

this is a picture I got from the "waterpump guy" at Gates Corp. I sent it to Rockauto for comparison with their individual and boxed-set waterpumps

 

Since you tried using a URL link for an image...