Hey guys

I've done heaps of research on this issue but have some questions. I've currently got an EK civic sedan that only has a 22mm front sway bar as stock. I am looking at getting a rear sway bar to match it. Options I have looked at is getting an EK4/EM1 rear sway bar of 13mm without the ASR brace or getting a CTR 22mm with ASR brace.

The car is a daily drive, has King Springs 1' lowering springs and there are no plans to track it.

I know adding the 13mm will help, but I am concerned that having a 22mm front and 22mm rear sway bars will induce more oversteer in the vehicle.

Also I understand if I wanted to mirror an EM1 or EK9 i'd have to upgrade the front sway bar to 26mm and all the front LCA's etc, the 22mm in rear and ASR brace.

Has anyone experience in having either a combination of a 22mm / 13mm or a 22mm / 22mm(ctr bar) sway bar installation on a EK Civic sedan? Thoughts of either setup?

Thanks

 

If you're not going to track the car, you will not "feel" the oversteer unless you're driving like a maniac on the streets. Oversteer in FWD vehicles are rather difficult to induce unless it's super stiff in the rear with extra reinforcement bars and stiffer spring rates than the front spring rates.

 

"spirited daily driver"?

I have 26/13mm, and I didn't like it. I upped the spring rate in the rear and it's okay now.


My opinion. I would leave the 22mm bar up front, and put a 13mm in the rear. Drive it, see if you like it. If you feel like you may like something larger in the rear, go bigger.
Also, there are aftermarket options in the 15-19mm range that wouldn't require a brace. Don't feel like you are limited with OEM parts.

 

I'll agree. I have a 26/13 at the moment. I put the 13mm Si one on the rear when i had the stock 22mm front, and even with stock springs, it helped. You'll notice that the car feels like its not as nose heavy and pivots closer to the center of the car. the 13mm rear swaybar doesn't affect ride comfort either, at least in a straight line. a 22mm rear will, and will also require a subframe reinforcement, as the stock subframe will tear. the EK9 CTR had a thicker rear subframe.

add the 13mm rear swaybar, you'll like it, and its good for the street too.

 

I went from 26/13mm on my EK4 to 26/24mm. THe difference was night and day.

Forget oversteer in the sense of 'rear stepping out, applying opposite lock'. It rarely happens unless you've properly over cooked it or provoked it with snapping the throttle shut.

What it does is give the front tyres a lot more grip and as BrakeExpert describes, makes the car feel a lot less nose heavy and more neutral handling. It will feel like the rear axle is actually contributing to the handling instead of simply being dragged along, holding the **** off the ground.

 

Thanks so much for the advice guys appreciate it.

I was leaning towards the 22mm/13mm and see how I like it and then if I think it needs bigger go the bigger option.

Again thanks

 

Bump just asking one more question, hypothetically if you went 22mm front and 22mm back, what would the effect be on the car?

 

I would recommend taking your car to a local autocross event and play around. Safe, controlled environments will help you better understand the different settings. Keep your spirited driving off the streets for the safety of yourself and others.

 

In what sense didn't you like it?

26/15 here myself (comes off an EDM EK4 which rocks a 15mm) and have the 22 laying in wait, but I feel I need to upgrade my springs to at least EK9 rate before mounting it.

 

Here's your answer: http://www.blackartdynamics.com/Chas...ransferDC2.php

All those inputs are for a DC2-R, it's close enough to a Civic that you can just play with the spring rates and ARB diameters to see what effects the changes have.

The figure to look at is 'Front Diagonal'. This is the percentage of the total load transfer going across the front axle as is what the springs and bars affect, determining the basic handling balance.

An understeering Civic/Integra will be over 45% and an oversteering one will be under 40%.

A nicely balanced one will have that figure around about 40-45% with the lateral acceleration set at .7G.

You can set lat. acc. higher, but depending on the setup, lifting the inside rear wheel distorts the results.

 

Thanks Kozy interesting readings i get with 22mm / 22mm

Lateral Acceleration: G
Static weight distribution: %
Vehicle mass: lbs
CoG Height: in
Front Rear
Track Width: in
Roll Center Height: in
Unsprung Mass: lbs
Coil Spring Rate: lbs/in
Motion Ratio:
Bar Outer Diameter: mm
Bar Wall Thickness: in
Bar Length: in
Arm Length: in
Bar Motion Ratio: in
Front Rear
Ride Frequency 1.22 hz 1.55 hz
Wheel Rate (spring) 105.5 lbs/in 98.6 lbs/in
Wheel rate (bar) 25.98 lbs/in 221.91 lbs/in
Roll Stiffness 29.1% 70.9%
Load transfers
Unsprung 18 lbs 17 lbs
Geometric 17 lbs 24 lbs
Elastic 148 lbs 360 lbs
Combined 182 lbs 401 lbs


Chassis roll angle 2.2°

Total Load Transfer 583 lbs

Front Diagonal 41.04%

HOWEVER with 22mm/13mm I get the following:

Lateral Acceleration: G
Static weight distribution: %
Vehicle mass: lbs
CoG Height: in
Front Rear
Track Width: in
Roll Center Height: in
Unsprung Mass: lbs
Coil Spring Rate: lbs/in
Motion Ratio:
Bar Outer Diameter: mm
Bar Wall Thickness: in
Bar Length: in
Arm Length: in
Bar Motion Ratio: in
Front Rear
Ride Frequency 1.22 hz 1.55 hz
Wheel Rate (spring) 105.5 lbs/in 98.6 lbs/in
Wheel rate (bar) 25.98 lbs/in 27.06 lbs/in
Roll Stiffness 51.1% 48.9%
Load transfers
Unsprung 18 lbs 17 lbs
Geometric 17 lbs 24 lbs
Elastic 259 lbs 248 lbs
Combined 294 lbs 289 lbs


Chassis roll angle 3.86°

Total Load Transfer 583 lbs

Front Diagonal 50.21%

hmmmm interesting results

 

22/22 looking much better!

 

unless of course I get higher rated springs... asr here I come then...

 

Checking in to say on 450/400 rate springs 22/24mm swaybars my setup is by no means an oversteering nightmare. I read all this **** on the forums about how the 24MM rear should be a track only bar or use caution on the streets... that or always go bigger on the front bar for a street car. Well I'd have to ask, how the **** are you driving and how horrible are your rear tires?!

 

Amen. My 24mm bar on the stiff setting was fine on the road. I had probably one or two hairy moments when I was forced to lift off mid corner on wet roads and even then it was only a case of countersteer and re-apply throttle. Other than that it was absolutely fine and handled like a boss!