Hello I am new to the forums, so be gentle on me. Im currently in the process of "blueprinting" a LsVtec. for DD but, also for now and then racing. Budget wise, mostly looking on CL for Sweet deals on parts like head, pistons etc.... and of course new bearings, gaskets and lubes etc. (Looking for a budget build but i will definitely not be Mr. el grande cheapo) Numbers i am aiming for: 180whp. Will be dropped in a cheap shell in the future. I am aware of the thread started by BAMBAM on LSVtecs but I wanted to ask what would be a good build for starters. I've done quite a bit of research on a couple builds but i feel like i may be missing something. Excuse my lack of knowledge to engine building as i am fairly new to this & my grammar as well.

My LS VTEC Plan

(In process of buying parts) Just bought the bare block from a friend of mine.

Block:

B18B1-Will keep 81mm
P30 if not, then PR3 Pistons with Hastings
LS Crank micropolished
LS Connecting rods, Shot peened
GSR ARP Head Studs
ACL main/rod bearings
GSR Waterpump
GSR Oil Pump
GSR Gates Racing Timing belt
Magnetic drain plug (breaking in motor)

Head:

I really have two options, GSR Bare head for $150 from the same friend that sold me the bare block OR b16 Head from a guy on CL with complete stock valvetrain but no Distributor, Cams and vtec solenoid. $200.

B16/GSR? Undecided. Leaning more towards that B16.
Skunk 2 Tuner 2 Cams
Skunk 2 Cam Gears
Skunk2 or Supertech valvetrain
Golden Eagle Vtec conversion kit
Stock injectors - Adjustable full pressure regulator > still need do more research
Hondata Intake manifold gasket
Stock manifold for now..... or Skunk2's
Headers - Still deciding, need more research

Transmission.
Haven't gotten this far yet..

Anyways, thats all the time i can put into this thread, hopefully i get respectful replies and help. Thanks for looking!

 

If you are looking for 180whp, you don't need to go with a built head and aftermarket cams. The block you are building w/ ITR cams and a good header (PLM Toda) will easily get you what you want. I would expect more in the 195-200ish range with s2t2 cams. My buddies LSV with the same bottom end you're building and a bone stock GSR head put down 177whp 128tq on a stingey local dyno dynamics. That is w/ a stock GSR IM and a beat to **** RMF narrow header.

My personal opinion is to keep compression on a street motor on pump gas at around 12:1. With a GSR head you will be just under 12.5:1 and a B16 head just a hair over 12:1. Again, that is my personal opinion. I would rather leave room for timing and tuning. Plus an ITR IM on the B16 is cheap and proven to make power.

As far as fuel goes, I always like to upgrade fuel pumps (less that $100 for a walbro), and a set of RDX injectors w/ a stock rail and FPR would compliment your build as well. Plus you will have PLENTY of room to grow later on with that setup.

As for tranny, it's really a preference thing when it comes to DD for GSR vs. B16. Some guys don't like turning the R's w/ B16 gearing on the highway and opt for the slightly longer GSR gears. I personally didn't care, for me the shorter the better.

OH and I don't know where you're located, but I have a spare LS/B20 crank and 8 LS/B20 rods in my garage for sale

Again a lot of this is my opinion as well as experience. Take it for what it's worth, other will chime in and either say I'm wrong, or agree. Ultimately it's your decision, searching and researching will be your friend.

 

Thank you for the reply.

Im from CA, Norcal. But i already have a LS Crank micro polished sitting in my garage. Oh, but u may need those LS rods. As for the head, im going for the B16 Head. The guy i am buying it from already has stock valvetrain and resurfaced. I may just go do the ITR valvetrain, and Cams. Then later on if im unsatisfied with the stock internals, i would still lean towards the built head with ITR IM. Maybe not now just to save few bucks in my pocket. As for Cam gears, since people say the timing will always be off, Adjustable Cam gears are recommended. Maybe S2 Or Aem. As far as ECU, i still dont know what to run. I heard GSR p72 are a big no no for a LSV. After your big help i came up to this:


-B18b
-LS Rods shot peen'd
-ACL bearings
-ITR/GSR oil/water pump
-Pr3 pistons
-b16 head with Port n Polish
-ITR IM W/ hondata gasket
-ITR valvetrain
-ARP Headstuds/Rod studs
-GE Vtec Conversion
-ITR Cams
-Adjustable Cam Gears s2 or Aem
-Gsr timing belt
-ECU? Not decided. But Crome street Tune
-B16 Trans
-Walbro 255 running 91 octane
-RDX injectors
-Headers.. still deciding

Will keep updating the blueprint as i look further into building.

Later on, Upgrade to those s2s2 And Ti Retainers and Valvetrain upgrade

Brain hurts so ill just leave it there. Theres still alot of research to be done but, i surely wont rush into this build until im comfortable with the set up. Thanks.

 

so i pretty much had this build with the itr cams and valvetrain. i would use the itr pistons instead of the pr3, i think it will keep the compression about half a point lower. its much easier to pull a bit of timing if you need to compared to having to loose a bit of compression especially since you are working with 91 octane .

just my opinion

 

I agree with this, it goes hand in hand with what I mentioned with my post about CR in relation to timing on pump gas. I WAS going to build a LSV but decided to nut up and go with a B20V. I had mine planned out to use USDM ITR pistons. IMO the compression ratio is perfect for street on pump, allows for the best timing adjustments w/o sacraficing CR and has the best domes for flame travel. Believe it or not effeciency across the piston dome is just as important as CR itself, if you can't burn it why have it? Right?

For header I'll decide for you. Beings you're on a budget, PLM Toda rep. Period.

Just on a side note if you look into aftermarket cams later on, yes the S2s2 are consistent and make power, but there are other options available that will suit this motor nicely as well. Pro 1's or 2's in particular. Or some M22/24's. Or DDTech cam get you some killer numbers as well.

 

I have a similar setup to yours. I went with the p30 b16 piston and a b16 head. I used to daily drive the car, but I would notice that on hot day I would need to back the timing a few degrees back in order to keep the motor from detonating.

One thing I didn't see on your list was ARP rod bolts. You will need them for reliability at high rpm's.

USDM or even jdm itr pistons will be great and will raise your compression from the stock ls pistons. Keep in mind that it will required some grinding on the piston to be able to installed on the LS rods. The b16 pistons fit perfectly with no modifications.

Transmission - Go with a gsr transmission or b16. I had a LS long gears and my vtec was set to 5500rpm. I needed to shift at 8400 in order to be at 5600rpm on the next gear. With my gsr trans its a lot better now.

 

im kind of curious what timing settings you had and what you backed it off too. you can pm me if you want as to not clog up this thread.

i also was going back and forth between a p30 and sk2 pro series intake manifold on my motor. i run one for a few weeks then swap to the other. i decided on the pro series based off off fuel consumption . there really wasnt much low or mid range difference but the motor definitely needed more fuel above 6500 rpm with the sk2

 

At least you have done some research on your end and have some goals in mind of what to expect out of your build. I did an LSV just about exactly one year ago, now has 13k miles and running strong. I went with the gsr head on b18a block. Mine is streetuned on a chipped P72 w/ ECtune.. 182 hp/131 tq.. As aftermath mentioned you will def. need ARP bolts. Not sure what exactly you're driving now, but also take into consideration the smaller things that add up by the end..such as new motor mounts/torque mounts, brackets (I had to get a P72 P/S bracket in place of my LS P/S bracket - if you even plan on keeping P/S).. things like that kept coming up and new gaskets, parts you buy that might be missing bolts etc.. I've heard good things about the TODA rep header and the Skunk2 alpha header so might want to also check on those before making a decision. good luck with the build.

 

Oh yes, i did forget to jot down ARP rods bolts. I wanted to do ITR Pistons but I also do not want to deal with modifications to the piston and etc. I really like the whole LS Rods shot peen'd with either Pr3 or p30s just because no modifications are needed.

 

I had LS rods (Non-shotpeened) but w/ NPR PR3 Pistons and rings. 81.5mm w/ ARP rod bolts...they've lasted so far so good..I've also got a B16 tranny w/ 12LB flywheel.. This was coming from an automatic LS (B18B1) AUTOMATIC!.. so I was hesitant on the high rpm/high wear + high noise vs. the acceleration.. You do get used to it after a few months..and not sure about you, but honestly if its a daily driver, Im usually bz shifting to see those kind of numbers.

 

Researching plays a big part of this whole build especially since im a Noob, Hence the Screen name As far as money wise, this whole process of building this motor will definitely be over a long period of time. (Having other sh*t to pay for and also Christmas being around the corner). Im doing this more as a learning process and testing some knowledge i learned from few small auto courses. As far as P/s, i dont think id be needing that. As for headers, like i said, best thing to do is research and ask the more experienced builders out there fee tips. So thank you all for helping.

 

Yes, as much as i would like to slap the ITR pistons on, i mainly looking for easy simple setup. As someone mentioned, Itrs require few modifications to fit on the LS rods. I would rather do pr3 or p30s as (so ive read) that it fits perfectly into the stock LS'.. As for bore sizes.. id like to keep the stock 81mm, but maybe even consider boring it to the next size up. But i still have a lot to learn on what cause and effects.

Sorry for the lack knowledge.. :3

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RS-MACHINE-INTEGRA-Type-R-PISTONS-HONDA-ACURA-81-5MM-/190999879164?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c787addfc
use the rs machines pistons. teflon coated skirts and they come with rings. many many people use them with great success, myself included

 

^^^If I recall correctly the newest version of the ITR rep pitsons from RS machine fit without modifications.

 

This is correct. Buddy of mine got a pair and no mods at all just had the machine shop press em on to stock ls rods.

"Car handled real good"

-Eric

 

If you want to play it safe, you can use the pr3 pistons on the ls rods with ARP bolts. You really don't need to shotpeened the rods. I have had mines for 4 years with the motor getting close to 30k miles on it of pure beating.
On my cousins b20v setup we used ARP bolts on stock rods and motor was revved to 9300 rpm (making power up to 9400) and the rods held up really good.
The motor was tracked once a week making 7-9 runs down the track. daily driven everyday as well. Motor lasted 1 year before the valve steams decided to go out. Rods were still in perfect shape.

blackeg- pm send.



The PR3 will give you a little lower CR compared to the p30's, but you will be able to "later" bring the compression higher if desire with a thinner head gasket, milling the head, or flat face valves. If you start wuth a high CR, then you wont be able to go any lower unless your able to get a thicker head gasket.