Hey guys - I currently have a '97 Civic which I've had for about a year and a half now..got it for $1450 and over that year, I've put about $3000 into it. Did a TON of stuff (gaskets, axles, all brakes, 2 sets of tires, 2 doors, body work, timing belt/water pump, shocks and struts, window motor, window, etc), and also learned a lot in the process. Although my OCD perfectionist in me came out, I still fixed a lot of things that were necessary (and some that were obviously not completely necessary) in order to get it where it is today.

I never thought I'd be in a position where I'd need to change cars, but I've kind of found myself at a crossroads. I am starting a job in January which will require a lot of travel. I mean a LOT of travel (40,000 or more miles a year on the car). Right now, my car is starting to get tired..I got it at 151k and it currently has 188k on it..the engine is starting to use oil in one way or another. I'm fairly confident it's an oil burning issue..probably time for a new set of bearings and rings. I don't want to tear this engine all the way down, take it to a machine shop, and pay a ton of money in order to get the crank / cam machined, block honed and dipped, etc. I'm seriously debating getting a different car once those days of high-mileage commuting begins.

I have been looking at the next gen up (2001-2005) of Civics in particular. I am happy with what I have now, as it has been a great car and never left me stranded. I probably could have limped it along with little, to none of the repairs that I did (aside from regular maintenance). I wanted to know what you guys thought of the 7th generation of Civics vs my older 6th generation.

When I bought my 6th gen, an important factor was the availability and prevalence of used parts for it. I didn't want to go broke having to buy everything online, or new, for that matter.

Are the 7th gens more reliable? I would expect the gas mileage to be about the same (~30mpg) and I would expect it to be a bit peppier in acceleration. I would also expect it to be a bit roomier and more comfortable for those long road trips.

I am kind of pulling my hair here, because on one hand I could change the rings in my Civic, address the A/C issue which it's been having, and (eventually) get a paint job..that's another thing - my current car has paint fading on the roof and a different colored hood, bumper, and front fender. I was never worried about appearances before, but this job will also require me to interact with a lot of clients and dress the part, and I want to make as good of an impression as I can. I won't have to chauffeur anyone around, but showing up in a multi-colored car doesn't reflect very well against the business. If it were your car, what would you do? Are there any largely noticeable differences between the 6th gen and 7th gen that would make this an easier decision? I would be looking to spend about $3000 on the new Civic, and I am POSITIVE I wouldn't get the money out of my old one that I've put into it..even if I fixed the rings, A/C, and did a paint job then I would just be more in the hole and unable to recoup that "lost" money.

Sorry for the long post..but thanks for getting through it!

 

Weird that your 6th gen wore out so fast. Maybe the previous owner neglected it and/or non-OEM parts were used for a rebuild. I've driven/owned 6th gens that had well over 200k miles and felt great...with no major maintenance at all. I had a 245k mile EX model....didn't burn oil...never did anything except oil changes and the 100k maintenance.

7th gens are not as good or reliable as 6th gens. The engine/trans reliability and gas mileage is about the same. I think the big pitfall is the fact that they moved away from double wishbones. The 7th gens just feel less solid altogether.

Buy a well kept 6th gen. Try for a HX model if you want over 40mpg. Or an EX...mid 30's in MPG, but has more power and better options. Maintain it well. Try to use OE Honda parts for replacement parts. It will run for a long time.

 

I don't think it's completely worn out..just has multiple issues that need addressing. Another issue is this vibration that occurs when accelerating..I have replaced CV axles, ALL motor mounts, and shifter bushings to no avail..and I'm starting to think it could be a warped flywheel. No slipping, but it's definitely a noticeable vibration. A/C works, then won't work for 10 minutes or so, then will work - and the hood, fender, bumper are primer black.

I will look closer to confirm that it's actually burning oil and not leaking somewhere. I just got done replacing the crank and cam seals, and doing a timing belt/water pump on it, and I'm hoping that I didn't make the leak worse somehow. I was damn careful installing them. Used to lose about a half-quart to a quart per oil change (5000 miles), but now I am sure I've been adding more than that..most recently about 1/3rd a quart after a fill-up (300 miles). Just a bummer to have to deal with it all at once! I thought I was working away at the problems that were there, but it seems like I've made them worse..or aggravated them.

 

i would go for another 6th gen. the 7th gens just don't feel like you're driving a honda.

 

Is the $3000 the total cost of the 7th gen Civic? If so, then you're not going to get a good car at all.

 

Prior to purchasing my 04 Civic, I did some rather extensive research into the EG, EK, and ES Civics. In the end, I picked the 04 ES over the others for the following reasons:

1) Tons of people will tell you the D16 is their preferred engine over the D17, but I'd have to disagree. In stock form, at least, I really appreciated the extra grunt (ie. torque) from the slightly larger displacement.

2) The ES is a bigger car, and is more comfy as a DD. It is also more practical because of the flat floor in the rear passenger area.

3) Rust. Compared to the EG and EK, the ES is significantly more resistant. This was a big deal to me simply because rust is a pet peeve of mine.

In sporty or aggressive driving, the ES is obviously inferior to the previous generations running on double wishbones. In regular street driving, however, the differences aren't really significant.

Last but not least, if the OP is seriously considering an ES, make sure you only look at the 04 and 05 (facelifted) models. The 01-03 pre-facelift models are significantly more problem-prone, from engine mounts to front shocks to airbag sensors to seat belt buckles to slipping automatic transmissions, just to name a few. The problems tend to manifest themselves as the car ages. But these problems have pretty much been all fixed in the 04-05 facelifted cars. So keep that in mind when you are shopping.

 

I would say that is entirely arguable. I've raced with 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Gen. Civic's... and I would contest that (in minor-modification states) the 7th Gen. was the most balanced of the chassis.

 

I completely agree with you about the ES having the most balanced chassis, Matt. In terms of agility, however, I prefer the earlier generations.

 

Out of the box, the earlier generations have an advantage over the 7th Gen. due to the ratio in their steering racks. But, that can be changed with a bit of creativity, on the 7th Gen's.

 

Traum, thanks for all the info. I did not know anything about the differences between the years (outside of the generalization of the generation). I have the D16H7 SOHC on my Civic currently, which gives me anywhere from 30-35mpg depending on how/where I am driving. Is the real-world MPG of the 7th gen about the same?

I'd be looking for a manual for sure, so I'm assuming I'd be much less prone to problems in the transmission department...

After reading all of these various reviews and opinions, I might just stick it out with my current car. I can try to better pinpoint this oil usage and at least get it to a minimum, and I'm sure I can get another 40-50k out of it easily (as long as it's not using as much oil as it recently appeared to...). There's no smoke, though, or loss of power..I'm hoping it's just a bad or leaky gasket somewhere. I had never pressed in crank and cam seals before so maybe I screwed that up somehow. I guess it will never be 100% leak-free (everything from oil pan to valve cover will have that annoying drip slip past somewhere). Thanks for all of that info, though - that is definitely good to know.

 

I'm sure you can find how others are doing in terms of gas mileage on the forum with a little searching, but for what it is worth, I typically get 30-35 mpg as well. If I get stuck with a lot of stop and go traffic, it dips into the 26-28 range. Track days, on the other hand, absolutely murders my mpg -- I seem to only get around 15-18 mpg.

And all of this is done on a completely stock D17A1 (non-VTEC). The D17A2 (with VTEC) is supposed to be slightly better for both hp/tq and gas mileage.

 

The D17 motor is absolutely the worst motor Honda has ever built. In my shop on any given week there are atleast 2 01-05 Civic's in it getting head gaskets done.

My advice to you, if you're dead set on getting a new car, look into getting an 06+ Civic. If you can't afford one at this time, and your car is in fact burning oil, have the motor rebuilt and you should have no problems with taking it another 100+k.

 

Given the ubiquity of this generation of Civics, I suspect their sheer numbers would have something to do with the higher frequency with which you see them. Additionally, what is the nature of the cause to these head gasket failures? If it was due to poor maintenance, I don't think it is fair to blame it on the design.

The 06+ Civics is undoubtedly a far more sophisticated and modern design than the 01-05 Civics. At the same time, their 2 tier dash is also a major source of controversy. I happen to be in the "I-@(*$@(#)-hate-it" camp, so I could never bring myself to recommend that to anyone.

 

Granted they are a popular but my comparison is against the entire Honda lineup over all generations and models. In the years I have been a technician I can count on my fingers the amount of other models that have come into the shop for head gasket work. When they have come in, the cause was usually a failing thermostat or a leak the person did not pick up on until the vehicle overheated. As to where I have 3 D17 engines in my work bay as we speak.

This generation of Civic's come in a steady stream, all years of this generation, all different mileages (some have failed at 60k some at 100k) and all failures occur all in the same general area. Usually around the cylinder #1 and #2 area but some have failed in other places but all in the area between the water jacket and combustion chamber. The gasket always seems to lose it's black coating in said area, either rubbing away or getting burned away, causing the pressure in the combustion chamber to leak into the water jacket. As for what is causing the failure, I have never really sat there and investigated it (with my job time is money) but even so I don't think I would come to any solid conclusion as I am by no means an engineer...LoL

 

Thank you for sharing your experience and insights, Si. I sure hope my ES wouldn't ever develop this kind of head gasket issue!

 

I bought my '01 HX about a year ago for $2950 and it's been a great car!

Of course I've replaced:
Tranny
Struts/shocks and springs
Compliance/LCA bushings
Ball joints
Motor mounts
Timing belt and tensioner
Water pump
O2 sensor
Rear brakes
Pass. half-shaft

Oh, yeah, I see what you're getting at...

But, I get low 50's mpg on the highway, so it suits my needs and I am pretty happy with the car.

 

Yeah, sadly there are a lot of things that CAN go wrong on these cars... if not properly maintained.