Is there any Sedan Owner running EP3R Suspension?
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Is there any Sedan Owner running EP3R Suspension?
I've read a lot a couple months about that set-up but never happen to read feedback on Sedan.
I have a 1.7EL 2004, which is pretty much a SI Sedan. I want a small drop and a slightly stiffer shock but I want to keep it as OEM as possible. The EP3-R set-up would be perfect for me but I'm wondering about some possible issues:
1. Weight is same (5kg difference) but have no idea about the weight distribution. I fear an uneven drop. What do you think about that?
2. If I remember correctly, the EP3R suspension geometry is slightly different than the Civic, would what cause a problem or a change is the suspension?
3. Lastly, feedback? Worth it? I need OEM cause it's a Daily and see harsh winters (Quebec FTW) Also note that I will probably bring them back from Japan and I do plan on putting some extended ball-joint in there at the same time. (Got a ripped boot)
Any other comment is welcome.
Thanks in advance!
I have a 1.7EL 2004, which is pretty much a SI Sedan. I want a small drop and a slightly stiffer shock but I want to keep it as OEM as possible. The EP3-R set-up would be perfect for me but I'm wondering about some possible issues:
1. Weight is same (5kg difference) but have no idea about the weight distribution. I fear an uneven drop. What do you think about that?
2. If I remember correctly, the EP3R suspension geometry is slightly different than the Civic, would what cause a problem or a change is the suspension?
3. Lastly, feedback? Worth it? I need OEM cause it's a Daily and see harsh winters (Quebec FTW) Also note that I will probably bring them back from Japan and I do plan on putting some extended ball-joint in there at the same time. (Got a ripped boot)
Any other comment is welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Re: Is there any Sedan Owner running EP3R Suspension?
Your car is identical to an '03-'05 production model ES2, so follow the information below...
Personally speaking, that's a waste of money and time. I'd rather leave it stock, or buy a proper aftermarket coilover.
Originally Posted by MindBomber
I've been meaning to write a fact on suspension cross compatibility for awhile, this thread may turn into that.
Front Lower Control Arms:
A1. 02-04 DC5 Type-S, all years DC5 base, all years and models EP3, all years and models EM2/ES2/1 front lower control arms are cross compatible as the parts are physically identical.
A2. All years DC5 Type-R, and 05-06 DC5 Type-S front lower control arms are cross compatible with each other, but not the years and models listed in A1, as they feature a larger diameter tapered hole to accommodate the larger stud on ball joints used for these years and models. Adapters to sleeve the tapered holes in the control arms listed in A2, narrowing them to the smaller diameter featured in A1 control arms, are available from King Motor Sports for $75.
A3. All years DC5 Type-R control arms are forged aluminium; they offer greater strength, 6 pounds in weight savings and caster gains due to a 10mm increase in width. They can be installed on all the cars listed in both A1 and A2 if King Motor Sports adapters or knuckles and ball joints from an A2 car are used, however this will hyper extend the axles and therefore it's recommended to use Type-R axles (em2/es2/1 would need to be k-swapped). Important to note, when using aluminium control arms you will also need to run a Type-R sway bar or one designed specifically for one, due to the 10mm increase in width.
A4. The compliance bushings in all the cars in both A1 and A2 are the identical diameter and therefore cross compatible. It's been suggested that the compliance bushings found in DC5s are stiffer than EP3s, EM2/ES2/1 since it's a factory performance car, however I've seen no definitive measurement of the stiffness and they are prone to failure like EP3s, EM2/ES2/1.
A5. Front lower control arm and bushing removal DIY available here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ushing-install
Front Knuckles:
B1. 02-04 DC5 base and Type-S, all years and models EP3, all years EM2/ES2/1 use the same axle splines and therefore are cross compatible with little or no modification. The knuckles in 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 feature two 14mm holes for the crash bolts, all other years and models in B1 feature two 16mm holes for the crash bolts. All years DC5 base and 04-05 years EP3 use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern, 02-03 EP3 and all years EM2/ES2/1 are 4x100 bolt pattern.
B2. 02-04 DC5 Type-S knuckles are cross compatible, they can also be used with EP3s or k-swapped EM2/ES2/1 using DC5 Type-S or DC5 Type-R axles. They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.
B3. 05-06 DC5 Type-S are cross compatible, they could be used on the cars listed in B2 with additional parts (see A2), they could also be used on the cars listed in B1 with correct axles and additional parts (See B2 and A2). They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.
B4. All years DC5 Type-R are cross compatible, they feature 15mm longer hubs to accommodate larger brembo brakes and wider lower control arms, as well as a different design of hole for ITR ball joints, they use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.
Front Macpherson Struts:
C1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible. The 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 utilizes 14mm crash bolts, while the 03-05 EM2/ES2/1 and all years EP3 utilize 16mm; to use struts with 16mm crash bolts on an 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 you can either drill out the knuckles with a 5/8 drill bit or order tapered reducing washers from k-sport. The arms feature a 12mm tapered hole for tie rod end studs.
C2. All years and models DC5 use 16mm crash bolts. They feature a larger diameter tapered hole on the arm than the struts listed in C1 to accommodate larger studs on tie rod end, 13mm. They can be used on the cars listed in C1 provided DC5 tie rod ends are also used.
C3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base front macpherson struts on your car, will that improve performance?
The short answer is yes, the long answer would be that it's difficult to say exactly how much of a performance increase there would be and whether it would be noticeable. The DC5 Type-S and base are heavier and designed from the factory as performance cars, so the valving in the struts should be more aggressive as a result. Comparison of shock dynos of a stock DC5 strut and a stock strut from a C1 car would provide allow for a definitive answer, if someone can provide the graphs.
C4. A-Spec.
I'll come back to this later...
Rear Shocks:
D1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible.
D2. All years and models DC5 have a slightly wider bushings on the bottom mount, in order to use these on the cars listed in D1, the bushings needs to be shaven down by a few millimeters.
D3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base rear shocks on your car, will that improve performance?
See C3.
D4. A-spec, see C4.
Front Springs:
E1. 2002-2004 base DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E2, E3 and E4. They are rated at 279lbs.
E2. 2002-2004 Type-S DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E3 and E4.
E3. All years and models EP3 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E4. They are rated at 248lbs.
E4. All years and models EM2/ES2/1 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E3.
E5. All models 2005-2006 DC5 front springs are cross compatible only with E7 springs, as they are reverse wound.
E6. 01-04 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible with E1, E2, E3 and E4 springs. They use 3.7k rates and are progressive.
E7. 05-06 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible only with E5 springs, as they are reverse wound. They use 4.6k rates and are progressive.
E8. Aftermarket lowering springs rates for DC5s.
RSX Spring Rates Stock and Aftermarket
Rear Springs:
Stock EP3: Spring Rate: (248 Front/440 Rear)
Stock RSX: Spring Rate: (279 Front/458 Rear)
DC5-R rates
01-04
F 3.7k R 7.4k
05-06
F 4.6k R 8.5k
More coming.. in progress
F 3.7k R 7.4k
Front Lower Control Arms:
A1. 02-04 DC5 Type-S, all years DC5 base, all years and models EP3, all years and models EM2/ES2/1 front lower control arms are cross compatible as the parts are physically identical.
A2. All years DC5 Type-R, and 05-06 DC5 Type-S front lower control arms are cross compatible with each other, but not the years and models listed in A1, as they feature a larger diameter tapered hole to accommodate the larger stud on ball joints used for these years and models. Adapters to sleeve the tapered holes in the control arms listed in A2, narrowing them to the smaller diameter featured in A1 control arms, are available from King Motor Sports for $75.
A3. All years DC5 Type-R control arms are forged aluminium; they offer greater strength, 6 pounds in weight savings and caster gains due to a 10mm increase in width. They can be installed on all the cars listed in both A1 and A2 if King Motor Sports adapters or knuckles and ball joints from an A2 car are used, however this will hyper extend the axles and therefore it's recommended to use Type-R axles (em2/es2/1 would need to be k-swapped). Important to note, when using aluminium control arms you will also need to run a Type-R sway bar or one designed specifically for one, due to the 10mm increase in width.
A4. The compliance bushings in all the cars in both A1 and A2 are the identical diameter and therefore cross compatible. It's been suggested that the compliance bushings found in DC5s are stiffer than EP3s, EM2/ES2/1 since it's a factory performance car, however I've seen no definitive measurement of the stiffness and they are prone to failure like EP3s, EM2/ES2/1.
A5. Front lower control arm and bushing removal DIY available here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ushing-install
Front Knuckles:
B1. 02-04 DC5 base and Type-S, all years and models EP3, all years EM2/ES2/1 use the same axle splines and therefore are cross compatible with little or no modification. The knuckles in 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 feature two 14mm holes for the crash bolts, all other years and models in B1 feature two 16mm holes for the crash bolts. All years DC5 base and 04-05 years EP3 use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern, 02-03 EP3 and all years EM2/ES2/1 are 4x100 bolt pattern.
B2. 02-04 DC5 Type-S knuckles are cross compatible, they can also be used with EP3s or k-swapped EM2/ES2/1 using DC5 Type-S or DC5 Type-R axles. They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.
B3. 05-06 DC5 Type-S are cross compatible, they could be used on the cars listed in B2 with additional parts (see A2), they could also be used on the cars listed in B1 with correct axles and additional parts (See B2 and A2). They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.
B4. All years DC5 Type-R are cross compatible, they feature 15mm longer hubs to accommodate larger brembo brakes and wider lower control arms, as well as a different design of hole for ITR ball joints, they use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.
Front Macpherson Struts:
C1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible. The 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 utilizes 14mm crash bolts, while the 03-05 EM2/ES2/1 and all years EP3 utilize 16mm; to use struts with 16mm crash bolts on an 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 you can either drill out the knuckles with a 5/8 drill bit or order tapered reducing washers from k-sport. The arms feature a 12mm tapered hole for tie rod end studs.
C2. All years and models DC5 use 16mm crash bolts. They feature a larger diameter tapered hole on the arm than the struts listed in C1 to accommodate larger studs on tie rod end, 13mm. They can be used on the cars listed in C1 provided DC5 tie rod ends are also used.
C3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base front macpherson struts on your car, will that improve performance?
The short answer is yes, the long answer would be that it's difficult to say exactly how much of a performance increase there would be and whether it would be noticeable. The DC5 Type-S and base are heavier and designed from the factory as performance cars, so the valving in the struts should be more aggressive as a result. Comparison of shock dynos of a stock DC5 strut and a stock strut from a C1 car would provide allow for a definitive answer, if someone can provide the graphs.
C4. A-Spec.
I'll come back to this later...
Rear Shocks:
D1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible.
D2. All years and models DC5 have a slightly wider bushings on the bottom mount, in order to use these on the cars listed in D1, the bushings needs to be shaven down by a few millimeters.
D3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base rear shocks on your car, will that improve performance?
See C3.
D4. A-spec, see C4.
Front Springs:
E1. 2002-2004 base DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E2, E3 and E4. They are rated at 279lbs.
E2. 2002-2004 Type-S DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E3 and E4.
E3. All years and models EP3 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E4. They are rated at 248lbs.
E4. All years and models EM2/ES2/1 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E3.
E5. All models 2005-2006 DC5 front springs are cross compatible only with E7 springs, as they are reverse wound.
E6. 01-04 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible with E1, E2, E3 and E4 springs. They use 3.7k rates and are progressive.
E7. 05-06 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible only with E5 springs, as they are reverse wound. They use 4.6k rates and are progressive.
E8. Aftermarket lowering springs rates for DC5s.
RSX Spring Rates Stock and Aftermarket
Rear Springs:
Stock EP3: Spring Rate: (248 Front/440 Rear)
Stock RSX: Spring Rate: (279 Front/458 Rear)
DC5-R rates
01-04
F 3.7k R 7.4k
05-06
F 4.6k R 8.5k
More coming.. in progress
F 3.7k R 7.4k
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Re: Is there any Sedan Owner running EP3R Suspension?
Thanks for the good information Toyo! I've never seen that post either.
Problem is, the car is a daily in Quebec and we have snow/salt on the road 4 months a year. From past experience and reading, it doesn't take much time for them to get stuck in the rust.
Also, I believe I would have to spend a lot more money on the Coilover than on the EP3R suspension since I don't want to put cheap stuff in there.
Then again, I may be wrong?
Problem is, the car is a daily in Quebec and we have snow/salt on the road 4 months a year. From past experience and reading, it doesn't take much time for them to get stuck in the rust.
Also, I believe I would have to spend a lot more money on the Coilover than on the EP3R suspension since I don't want to put cheap stuff in there.
Then again, I may be wrong?
Re: Is there any Sedan Owner running EP3R Suspension?
Re: Is there any Sedan Owner running EP3R Suspension?
Thanks for the good information Toyo! I've never seen that post either.
Problem is, the car is a daily in Quebec and we have snow/salt on the road 4 months a year. From past experience and reading, it doesn't take much time for them to get stuck in the rust.
Also, I believe I would have to spend a lot more money on the Coilover than on the EP3R suspension since I don't want to put cheap stuff in there.
Then again, I may be wrong?
Problem is, the car is a daily in Quebec and we have snow/salt on the road 4 months a year. From past experience and reading, it doesn't take much time for them to get stuck in the rust.
Also, I believe I would have to spend a lot more money on the Coilover than on the EP3R suspension since I don't want to put cheap stuff in there.
Then again, I may be wrong?
Trending Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Libertariat
Suspension & Brakes
701
Sep 13, 2019 08:36 AM