So I'm new to this Honda scene...after years of hobby-wrenchin' on domestic stuff, I've picked up an older '90 Honda Civic DX to knock around in. Fuel prices being what they are, I'm suddenly much more interested in these little guys as commuter machines! Haha -

Here's the details - 1990 Honda Civic DX, bone stock 1.5 engine with 5 speed tranny.

Car sat for a year due to a fuel issue. Got that dialed in, and now I'm seeing weird battery issues. Here's what's happening:

I've got a 75 month Interstate battery that's currently almost exactly 4 years old (48 months, +/-)...so battery should be good (and it tests good at the local NAPA). After leaving the lights on for an hour a few nights ago, the thing had nearly NO juice. Thought the battery was just getting old, so I had NAPA test it out.

I took the car down to have NAPA test the battery and alternator for me. The portable "machine" tested the initial battery voltage good. When cranking to start, it dropped to 10ish (give or take - it was an analog unit), but once it started up and was running, the voltage jumped up to 14.5 as the alternator began charging. Almost immediately, however, the voltage dropped to 12ish, and stayed there for the remainder of the test.

BUT - here's the kicker - once we turned on the headlights, the voltage jumped right back up to 14.5, or a more traditional charging voltage.

SO - is my voltage regulator bad? The alternator must be working when it pushes that initial voltage back up to 14.5 - right? So if I scratch that off the list, what else would kill the alternator charge - the regulator?

And what tells the regulator to shut down the alternator? The ELD system?

When I tested the ELD piece, using this instructional piece here -

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/sn...152918_hon.png



everything came out just as the article suggested. BUT when I got to step 6, I was out of luck, as I don't have the test harness that is referred to in the instructions.

I'm looking for all of your input on this thing - could it be that I have the weird ELD problem that I've been reading about? Or is it something else?

I've not checked all the ground connections as of yet....and from what I've read so far that may very well be a huge contributing factor to all of this.

Anything else? I'm genuinely grateful for your input on it all - not sure where to turn to on this ol' gal.

 

I'm going to be honest with you, I hate the ELD. I would check the grounds for sure. Check for corroded grounds too. Everything in the engine bay is subject to harsh conditions and can go bad over time. I disabled the ELD in my car, but I have a chipped ECU. That's probably not an option for your motor. The voltage drop seems a little strange, maybe you should get a $20 sunocco voltage meter and just set it on your dash hooked up and check it throughout your normal routine. It could be there machine/associate messing it up.

True story about the autoparts store. They were testing my alternator on my VW. They hooked it up and whatnot, but it said my alternator wasn't charging. I replaced the alternator. Same issue, still wasn't charging the battery. Ended up being my negative wire was coming undone.

 

I'll check my ground connections, for sure.

Freemananana - which negative wire was coming undone? A battery connection? Alternator connection?

How many ground connections do I need to be looking for?

I'll price a small volt meter and see about getting it installed. Do they wire up pretty easily on these little Hondas? Not sure what it will tell me....other than the fact that something is killing my alternator. Might be a more true reflection of what's happening to my voltage as I drive the car throughout the day, however. Could be worth it for that alone.

 

Mine was the negative on the battery coming undone. The portion that attaches to the battery was stripping out.

As far as grounds, themostat housing, transmission to frame, and valve cover.

Volt meters are SUPER easy. It is basically 2 wires if I remember correctly. You can run it through the fuse panel on the driver side. I wired mine to an unused fuse that only had power when the key was in the 'on' position. So when you turn the key, the voltage shows, goes away when it cranks, comes back as the car is running.

Check the wiring on the alternator though. Maybe the portion that goes to the battery is going bad. Maybe your alternator needs replacing. I have run a lot of electrical load on my little honda alternator. More than most people here. My honda alternator kept up with my 2 15" 2500W subwoofers just fine. The only time it started to drain my battery was at very high volume levels while the car was idling at 750~ RPM. But as soon as I started to drive, i.e. 1000+ RPM, it was completely fine. I realize this is bad for the alternator in the long run, but I was really into car audio when I was younger and my 5,000W system was something I was very proud of.

 

Now that I think about it, I may have a gauge sitting on my shelf in the garage! Haha!

I'll check it tonight and see about getting it wired up. Now I'm curious as to what's going on....

 

Real time tracking is a good way to figure out the possible issues.

 

sounds to me like it is working like it is supposed to:

 

BOOM. That does sound like it is working right!

 

Then why is my 75 month battery dead after only 48 months? And why does my battery test fine, but still fail to charge? Think it's a battery issue?

If my battery tests fine (according to the local NAPA experts!), they won't give me a replacement (even a pro-rated replacement) battery, will they? If it's testing fine, they'll tell me it's something else - and might it be something else?

I'm still studying up on the flowchart, btw. Thanks for posting that, jlicrx! Hello from the other side of the mountains...

 

And the volt gauge I thought I had is an amp meter - which might be of value as well, right? I can chase the flow to/from my battery with it, right? Maybe I can chase the flow of the juice as well the amount!

 

You might be able to. My only suggestion is really to take a very good look at your alternator. Make sure the nut is on good that flows the current back to the battery. And make sure the belt and everything is in good shape.

 

Battery's don't last like they used to. The average life span where I am at is 28-36 months. Amperage is what you should be concerned about and not so much voltage. You can have 14.5 volts at 20amps and that's not good. And you can have 12.5 volts at 60 or 70 amps and they probably pretty good.

 

This is true. Cars are all on a 12V system now days. The amps are what change between batteries. It does suck that they only last 2 or 3 years.

 

Is there a simple way to test my battery's amperage? I have a digital voltmeter....but not sure that's enough.

Do the NAPA boys have to do this test?

My only concern is that I'll run down to the parts store, drop $116 (as I priced it last weekend) on the replacement battery, only to end up right back here in a month. Seems like an expensive (by my standards, at least) gamble. Was just hoping to get a more definitive figure on the battery's worth (as well as the other components of my charging system).

Does that make sense?

REALLY appreciate all of your input; keep it coming. If it's a battery that I need, that's quite honestly the best case. Quick and easy remove/replace. I'll be done in 20 mins!

 

hmm. You don't have a second car with a similar battery you can test it from without completely replacing it do you?

 

You have something else going on. It's normal for the battery charge to drop when it's running, the alternator does not stay constantly on. Makes sense the voltage jumps when you turn on lights, the load reactivates the alternator. I would drive the car awhile (about an hour) to get the battery back up to full. If you can park overnight and it starts the next day, everything is fine. You might have a draw at the radio, door belts, or something weird, but the lights do draw quite a bit.

 

OK - let's get caught up here...

First off, no, I don't have anything else around the house that uses the same battery. Everything else uses a much larger battery, so that option is out for now.

Next, zrickety - I left a trickle charger on the battery full time for 2 days. The charger showed the battery as being "fully charged" - whatever that looks like to a battery charger. Took two days to get there...but it finally arrived at full charge. Yesterday morning (Wednesday) I popped the charger off, and she fired right up, even at 13 degrees (it was freezing cold here!). As I was coming down to the bottom of the hill (it's almost 1 mile downhill from our house), I hit the brakes, and the car died. It's done this before a few times since I've owned it. Not sure why it does that....but it does. The car started right up, and away we went for the 12ish mile drive to my work. No other hiccups whatsover. BUT - the car sat outside all day (and yes, it was cold!) for about 10 or 11 hours....and when I went out to head home it would BARELY turn over. I had all but given up when on the last revolution it fired. Made it home just fine once it was running.

Today, after sitting out all night, it's all but 100% dead. Interior light came on, seat belt ran the track to "driving" position, but would BARELY turn the engine over. Three or four revolutions and that was it. Just started clicking the solenoid.

Any thoughts?

I've not checked any of the grounds yet. That's for this evening or maybe this weekend. The time change has me in the dark before I can even get her home!

 

It really sounds like a bad battery that won't hold a charge. I'd hit the Napa salesman in the face with it.

 

I yanked the battery this morning and am sending the wife down to swap it out.

Just biting the bullet and hoping that this solves the majority/all of my problems! We'll know soon enough...

 

I, too, bought a 89 civic hatchback that had been sitting for a year. Replaced a bunch of stuff just because I'm paranoid, but never replaced the battery. I just filled it up and left it on a trickle charger for 4 days.

Everything was fine for the 1st month I drove it. Then, out of nowhere, the battery was completely dead one morning. Once batteries get old and low enough of a charge, they never come back.

 

Sounds about right. Same thing happened to me when I let my car sit for about 6 months. The battery just wouldn't hold a charge after that.

 

So - my wife took the battery to a genuine Interstate battery distributor. They did a more comprehensive test (I'm not sure what that looks like; I wasn't there) on the battery and said that it had at least one bad cell. They said they were surprised that it was working at all!

Long story short - that very well may have been my problem all along.

I've installed the replacement battery and will begin putting her through the paces this morning...we should know pretty quickly whether or not it holds up! As cold as it's been lately, if it were running on the battery alone then I don't think it will last very long. I'd likely see a real drop in the battery's starting power within a week or two.

I'll keep you posted! Thanks again for all the input/support!

 

Well. That sounds right to me. I have one at home and it will tell you if there is a dead cell pretty dang accurately. You should probably notice over night. When my alternator died, I drove my car for about an hour on a brand new battery and it was dead again. So if it's not the battery, you will notice pretty quickly.

 

DEAD: When you hit the brakes, it most likely caused the vehicle to shift on its Frame, there-by microscopically twisting a failing ground connection, which instantly killed the engine (this happened to a 1966-Impala I owned: back about 1970 ! THE UNDER FRAME HAD COMPLETELY ROTTED AWAY FOR ~ 18" !!!! I installed a heavy ground wire from Back-to-Front Bumper Frame points; worked !!!). Given the indicated age, this is best attacked as a (intermittant-?) open ground connection; be prepared to do some free-lance-repairs as I had to do !!!!!

 

DEAD: When you hit the brakes, it most likely caused the vehicle to shift on its Frame, there-by microscopically twisting a failing ground connection, which instantly killed the engine (this happened to a 1966-Impala I owned: back about 1970 ! THE UNDER FRAME HAD COMPLETELY ROTTED AWAY FOR ~ 18" !!!! I installed a heavy ground wire from Back-to-Front Bumper Frame points; worked !!!). Given the indicated age, this is best attacked as a (intermittant-?) open ground connection; be prepared to do some free-lance-repairs as I had to do !!!!!