So I have a spare B18A1 block just chilling at my house, well I want to build that but I am debating about doing a lsv turbo or just an ls turbo. does anyone have any suggestions for me? I plan on building it all the way out, bigger valves stage 3 cams, so on and so forth. any suggestions let me know please

 

Hey nothing beats vtec but if you're going to do all that work, companys like Brian
Crower have crazy discounted prices on B18A/B stuff.. My guess is it doesn't sell as fast as vtec ****.

 

gotcha so you're saying stay LS then correct?

 

I think he was going for LS/VTEC Turbo. The block pieces can be bought cheaply, from what he said, so that's why it's a good idea to build the block. And then you can take either a GSR head or a B16 head and maybe get some better cams if you go with the B16 (ITR?).

I'd agree. Build your B18 block, get a B16 head and ITR cams or at least the GSR cams. If you have a block and no head, I see no reason not to go with a VTEC head.

 

Well I was thinking on going LS/VTEC but I really want to make as much power as possible, so I was thinking on maybe going with stage three Brian Crower cams and ross forged pistons, 1mm oversized valves, and all the machining. Idk what rods to go with, cause I don't like Eagle, heard to many bad stories about those braking under load, so idk. any other suggestions?

 

They don't break under load (where'd you hear that?) there's no need for "stage 3" cams of any kind. Pick a goal and use and go from there with that notion, not just "stages"...

 

Ok well one of my coworkers used to use them and his friends just had problems and problems like none other with them, but I want to have 650whp that is my goal. I want the meanest and fastest civic in town, plus I miss my turbo off my B18B1 with a PT6262 so ya kinda want the feeling of that I can destroy my cousin in his srt 4 with a stage 2 turbo. Thanks for the suggestions and I am very open minded and I will consider any suggestions

 

That's all in the build, no the equipment in many cases.650whp is a LOT of power to deal with. In many cases, even 400-450 would be more than enough to do it.

 

ya ik but I want to do everything to this engine because I know when I am done with it, I will want more if I know that there is more that could be done so that is why I want to hog the valves, put new rockers in, put bigger cams, low compression ratio pistons in, big turbo, fancy rods, duel injection intake, large FMIC, 50mm Tial BOV, Tial wastegate, ect.

 

Slow down... Much of what you're planning is NOT thorough. There's NO need to "hog" valves, stay with low compression , or "fancy" rods. you'll just be dumping money into the wrong areas. You need to plan realistically what this is going to do, be it planning for now, AND later. It would make no sense to do all of this, just to have a stock SRT-4 leave you in the dust because you went overboard with "BIG EVERYTHING", and didn't get specific with what works for what you're trying to do.. REWIND... THINK. Slow down, and look at some of these other builds. you'll find that MOST that have the power levels and use you're planning DO NOT have these items that you think they do.

 

I recently tuned a gsr to 600whp with STOCK cams and STOCK SIZE valves, and the turbo was barely even into its efficiency range. next week we're going for 800 simply by raising the boost and using meth injection. I don't think the meth will be enough, I'm sure it'll need race fuel. but what I'm getting at is exactly what shodan said; big everything does not always make the power, and most guys running big power don't use much of big anything except turbo, piping, FMIC, and fuel flow.

first you need to plan out what parts you'll need to make the engine capable of HOLDING your planned power [and rpms]. THEN figure out what you need to actually reach that power. and usually its just a matter of a good turbo manifold, properly sized turbo, smoothly flowing charge piping, large smooth exhaust, high flow FMIC, and a really good port job.

I see guys all the time running big everything at the same boost level as guys running stock sized everything, and the big everything guys are losing all the races and putting down noticeably lower numbers nearly everywhere. don't fall into the trap.

 

NO DOUBT..

 

Is there something better than the LS/VTEC aside from a straight GSR? I don't think you'll get more power out of a straight LS than you would the LS/VTEC.

But the masters have chimed in and it's pretty sound advice. Big isn't always best. 650 whp is a lot by the way. There is a guy who just dyno'd something like 650 and posted it here. His goal was higher, but everything went poots on him pretty much. Check his thread, it's a pretty good idea of what you have in store build wise if you aim for 650.

 

Whats the most power you have experienced in a honda?

 

I have only had a max of 250 in a civic that I have experienced hence why I am here asking these questions casue I am still a "noob" lol. I had a turbo'd civic hatch b18b1 with a pt6262 turbo, hence the username. So I just want to make the engine as much as I can possibly push out of it, because if I know the slightest bit that I can do more I will do more, so I really do but don't want to do somethings and do others instead. but I am very open minded and I will take in you guys advice and make my decisions thank you all

 

250 whp is a lot more than stock out of a civic. I've seen some 250 whp Civics run mid 12s. But 650 whp is a big jump. 400 HP difference. Definitely think it through and look at other 600+ HP builds and see what they did and didn't do. Ask them why they made their choices. Get some opinions that way. It should be a very fun car if you plan on streeting it at all.

 

Alright man if ur sure u want 650 I'll give u a starting point.
Do u still have the 6262? Cuz if u do that will make the power level ur looking for. Do u have e85? If not ur not making 650 unless ur running c16.
Send ur block out to b sleeved-Benson or golden eagle would b my suggestions but u have a lot of options out there.
take ur crank to the machine shop n have it micropolished n balanced.
Since u want big baller rods- i would suggest Manley I beam turbo tuff or pauter x beams but again alot of options out there.(b sure to get these for LS)
Pistons- arias, cp, je, u said u wanted Ross but really tons of options out there if u have e85 I would suggest something around 10.5-1 mayb higher, if not stick around 9.5 or so
Get urself a vtec head b16 gsr don't really matter much, u can make the power with stock cams but if u have to have some cams just get some itrs, no need for stage 3
get some good quality springs n retainers- plenty of options just do ur research
That should get u started.

 

thanks I appreciate it. I will start my build with that and I will take tons of pictures and post them up on this thread as my progress goes along. I have access to e85 and I was planning on getting a new 6262 cause the old one is passing oil really badly, previous owner didn't have a filter and drove it in the rain so it must have sucked up some dust or sand or something and eat it up, but the turbo is a 1700 turbo, I have access to a B16 but I really don't want to take it off the civic I have right now I was planning on getting a itr head and using that, ARP studs all the way around and building right the first time. Thank you all so much for the input, it is very much appreciated

 

Yep u got it man arp rod bolts n head studs. If u can find an itr head for a good price go for it but most likely u could get a b16/gsr head n get new seals n guides n all that n basically have a new head for the price of an itr head tho. Be careful buying a used itr head tho cause alot of them may not actually b itr. For instance pr3 doesn't necessarily mean itr it could also b b16 . There's only one for sure way to tell that I know of.

 

I'd simply get another B16 and use the difference in cost to work the head a little than to concern yourself with an "ITR" cylinder head.

As for the turbocharger, if its a ball-bearing unit and it has these issues, there are others out there. That's not a good sign to try and repeat the same process by getting another one of exactly the same configuration.

 

Alright I think that is what I am going to do, thank you for your ideas and if there is anything else that I should do let me know. I plan on port and polish the head, new guides, springs, retainers, possibly new rocker arms, large turbo, 9.5:1 compression ration pistons, probably might go with scat H beam rods, arp main/head studs and rod bolts, and going to send the block to CCC to have them sleeve it. lastly I will have it tuned then dyno'd and see what she will put down for numbers thanks guys and gals again for all the usefull advice.

 

You're focusing on all the wrong things and ignoring the people who can help you the most...this has fail written all over it

For example...you want to make 650whp (ridiculous overshot for a first setup) and are completely overlooking discussion about the turbo as well as the manifold, cam choice, displacement, etc... but you're dead set on rebuilding the head and using scat rods and haven't once mentioned sleeving

Listen to TheShodan and LightningTeg...this isnt their first time

 

ok there guy I didn't say I was dead set on doing anything this is all just a planning out phase of my project. Plus I said that I was going to send my block to CCC which does the sleeving, but instead of just putting sleeves in they actually melt down metal and pour it in and then machine it, so tell me that I am not listening to what these nice people are telling me for advice is a misconception. I did read what they said and just because I didn't type anything back about what they said doesn't mean that I didn't think on any of their thoughts. Plus this will be my third set up not my first so please don't tell me what I have done before in my life when you don't know me. I am asking for help on here because I don't want to throw myself into a hole again like I did last time. I want a lot of opinions before I even start buying stuff and placing orders and sending my stuff places. Ask Charlie Moua about the CCC and see what he as to say about them. Thanks for you comment but it was not really needed. Sorry to everyone else that actually realizes that I am paying attention to what they say and that I am a kind person, thank you all for comments and your time in reading this.

 

well . you were VERY vague and ambiguous. We don't just give suggestions without knowing what the world you're trying to accomplish or why. You've gone through several setups.. Great. How the hell were we supposed to know that? (And honestly, is it relevant at this stage of the discussion?).

You're right. we don't know you... But what's the point of suggestions if we don't know your wants, requirements, budget, etc.. that's not only assumptive, but rather pompous and arrogant. We don't care about CCC or what it does. If you like it, and its for you, go for it. No one is stopping you here, my friend.

If you want "ideas", then start looking at other setups that configure to either one of your LSVTEC or LS needs, instead of insulting the very people that were giving enough of a damn to want to help. You CAN always do this alone. No one is stopping that.

But to just be a jerk about it was just.... not cool.

 

This is usually the issue I have on HondaTech. OP, you did things that no one knew you were doing. You should definitely take some time and think everything through. 650 HP is a lot for a Honda. Don't get half way through this and decide it's not for you.