A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
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Honda-Tech Member
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From: Annandale, VA
A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
I was going to make sure where to mill the head before getting into the head gasket job. So, I went to this guy, and he goes that his son had a civic too, and he finally couldn't fix it and is going to sell it. My area has few machine shops by the way.
He said the civic engine block is rare type in that if overheated, the engine need swapped or overhauled to fix it EVERY SINGLE TIME. He said just changing the gasket and milling the head will only do two months, then it will leak again. He said if other mechanics tell me to change the gasket, to never do it.
I never heard of that. So, I called NAPA (one of the two machine shops in my area), he says it's 50/50 shot. I'd need straight edge on that.
I overheated the car three months ago (I noticed right away, because the ac blew warm air on a hot summer day), and I immediately pulled over, and towed it to my home.
Not vivid signs of milky residue, sweet smell, and oil in coolant yet, but very little. The coolant level in the reservoir fluctuates between top and bottom every time I drive though.
Any help could I get?
He said the civic engine block is rare type in that if overheated, the engine need swapped or overhauled to fix it EVERY SINGLE TIME. He said just changing the gasket and milling the head will only do two months, then it will leak again. He said if other mechanics tell me to change the gasket, to never do it.
I never heard of that. So, I called NAPA (one of the two machine shops in my area), he says it's 50/50 shot. I'd need straight edge on that.
I overheated the car three months ago (I noticed right away, because the ac blew warm air on a hot summer day), and I immediately pulled over, and towed it to my home.
Not vivid signs of milky residue, sweet smell, and oil in coolant yet, but very little. The coolant level in the reservoir fluctuates between top and bottom every time I drive though.
Any help could I get?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: NW Indiana
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
Umm, sounds like the guy is full of ****. I changed my head gasket last summer, 47,000 miles ago, and I'm having ZERO problems with any head gasket leaks. Hell, I even got away with reusing the head bolts, which is a big no-no. Just do the correct gasket change procedure, use a good head gasket, and have the head resurfaced. Check the block surface for warpage too.
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
Get the head resurfaced at a minimum although now's a good time to get new valve seals and valves checked. New head gasket and some arp head studs
Never heard of such bs as what they told you.
Never heard of such bs as what they told you.
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From: New York
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From: Puerto Rico
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
like fragmare said, Just do the correct gasket change procedure, use a good head gasket, and have the head resurfaced. Check the block surface for warpage too.
I've done several Honda heads in our shop with the right procedure and never had a problem.
I've done several Honda heads in our shop with the right procedure and never had a problem.
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Thread Starter
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From: Annandale, VA
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
Could the straight edge be replaced by a steel ruler at HomeDepot?
(http://www.homedepot.com/p/qv/100127627)
I heard I would need precision edge, which I can't afford. Or should I take the block to the machine shop, too? I have a feeler guage set by the way.
(http://www.homedepot.com/p/qv/100127627)I heard I would need precision edge, which I can't afford. Or should I take the block to the machine shop, too? I have a feeler guage set by the way.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 599
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From: NW Indiana
Could the straight edge be replaced by a steel ruler at HomeDepot?
(http://www.homedepot.com/p/qv/100127627)
I heard I would need precision edge, which I can't afford. Or should I take the block to the machine shop, too? I have a feeler guage set by the way.
(http://www.homedepot.com/p/qv/100127627)I heard I would need precision edge, which I can't afford. Or should I take the block to the machine shop, too? I have a feeler guage set by the way.
Just go grab the following items:
1) Fel-Pro Head gasket set from Autozone or wherever
2) OEM Honda head bolt set
3) An appointment at a *reputable* machine shop to drop off the head and have it measured and resurfaced, if necessary.
4) Some beer
Last edited by fragmare; Oct 7, 2013 at 10:20 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Annandale, VA
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
Thanks dude.
1) & 2) OEM HG and Head bolts from dealer
3) For my relief, NAPA has head machine near my home
4) Yes
I guess for you (more experience than me - I just started fixing my car) to say MASSIVE, probably it doesn't apply to just five minutes of overheating.
Now, I pretty calmed down from worrying thanks to the comments that block at least doesn't have HIGH chance of warpage.
Thanks for the information people.
1) & 2) OEM HG and Head bolts from dealer
3) For my relief, NAPA has head machine near my home
4) Yes
I guess for you (more experience than me - I just started fixing my car) to say MASSIVE, probably it doesn't apply to just five minutes of overheating.
Now, I pretty calmed down from worrying thanks to the comments that block at least doesn't have HIGH chance of warpage.
Thanks for the information people.
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From: Annandale, VA
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
Was wondering reading through forums, if I need copper spray for OEM head gasket?
If it's better, what company do people use?
If it's better, what company do people use?
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From: NW Indiana
For OEM head gaskets, a little copper spray isn't a bad thing since they are bare metal. Any brand would do, really. The main thing is to make sure both mating surfaces (head and block) are perfectly flat. The aftermarket head gaskets (like Fel-Pro, etc.) are usually pre-coated with a graphite coating, and also reinforced to protect against hot spots.
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
d series engines are so cheap and plentiful it would probably just be cheaper to swap in another one instead of rebuilding one back to oem specs. especially if you're not tearing it down and building it back up yourself.
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
If it's just the headgasket, here's what I wrote on another person's thread. If it's simply overheating and it's a Dseries motor then it's most likely just simple the headgasket blown, no need for full rebuild which sounds retarded. Honda's a motor company, and their motors are usually tough.
Anyway, here's what I told another guy:
Anyway, here's what I told another guy:
* Machining the head is what I consider to be a must unless you can surely measure it and know it's perfectly flat. Don't adjust your valve lash until after you run the car, just so you know that the timing is still to spec, and you need to adjust the valves when the timing is mechanically correct. It only costed me $40 at my local machine shop to get it resurfaced.
* It's not necessary, I re-used mine when I did it, but if you're **** about it, get APR's. Just make sure you torque it all properly and put the headbolts back into the same slot where you removed them.
Here's what I wrote in a thread on ClubCivic:
When I first got my Civic 2 years ago as a 16 year old who didn't know much about cars, I threw out $3,000 and got it anyways.
1 week later, the headgasket and overheating started showing and I didn't have the cash or wanted to ask my parents so knowing nothing other than changing motor oil and coolant, I did research and in changed the headgasket myself.
I can't recall the overall price but you'll need essential tools:
Socket and wrench set (I got a $75 Craftsman set from Kmart)
Torque Wrench ($40)
Breaker Bar ($20)
Haynes Manual ($20)
Gasket set (headgasket, intake manifold gasket, exhaust manifold gasket) ~$100 around
Oil, filter, Coolant, etc; $100
Already had a jack and stands
Rough estimate of tools (that will always be used in other occasions) and parts: $400
Basically around $200 in parts
Align motor to TDC
Drained the oil, coolant, removed the manifolds off the head.
(put headbolts in certain order so you know which thread they came out of)
Using the correct cross pattern to remove the headbolts
Removed head, (set dowel pins aside with headbolts) cleaned it thoroughly, took it to a machine shop that leveled/resurfaced it for $40 overnight.
Rough estimate of labor: $40
Put everything back together re-using the headbolts in the correct order w/ torque wrench, (DONT FORGET THE DOWEL PINS)
Coolant, oil put in, fired it up.
I'm pretty sure that's all that was necessary I mentioned, apologies if there's any misinformation.
The shop costs alone are averaged $600-$900 for a headgasket change.
There are many Headgasket DIY tutorials on Honda-Tech, ClubCivic, all over the internet so Google would be a great companion, check them out.
These are resources I saved into my bookmarks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YayYzTDV0uo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnShx...eature=related
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=206158
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...ts-pics-71528/
* It's not necessary, I re-used mine when I did it, but if you're **** about it, get APR's. Just make sure you torque it all properly and put the headbolts back into the same slot where you removed them.
Here's what I wrote in a thread on ClubCivic:
When I first got my Civic 2 years ago as a 16 year old who didn't know much about cars, I threw out $3,000 and got it anyways.
1 week later, the headgasket and overheating started showing and I didn't have the cash or wanted to ask my parents so knowing nothing other than changing motor oil and coolant, I did research and in changed the headgasket myself.
I can't recall the overall price but you'll need essential tools:
Socket and wrench set (I got a $75 Craftsman set from Kmart)
Torque Wrench ($40)
Breaker Bar ($20)
Haynes Manual ($20)
Gasket set (headgasket, intake manifold gasket, exhaust manifold gasket) ~$100 around
Oil, filter, Coolant, etc; $100
Already had a jack and stands
Rough estimate of tools (that will always be used in other occasions) and parts: $400
Basically around $200 in parts
Align motor to TDC
Drained the oil, coolant, removed the manifolds off the head.
(put headbolts in certain order so you know which thread they came out of)
Using the correct cross pattern to remove the headbolts
Removed head, (set dowel pins aside with headbolts) cleaned it thoroughly, took it to a machine shop that leveled/resurfaced it for $40 overnight.
Rough estimate of labor: $40
Put everything back together re-using the headbolts in the correct order w/ torque wrench, (DONT FORGET THE DOWEL PINS)
Coolant, oil put in, fired it up.
I'm pretty sure that's all that was necessary I mentioned, apologies if there's any misinformation.
The shop costs alone are averaged $600-$900 for a headgasket change.
There are many Headgasket DIY tutorials on Honda-Tech, ClubCivic, all over the internet so Google would be a great companion, check them out.
These are resources I saved into my bookmarks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YayYzTDV0uo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnShx...eature=related
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=206158
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...ts-pics-71528/
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 175
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From: Annandale, VA
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
These are resources I saved into my bookmarks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YayYzTDV0uo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnShx...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YayYzTDV0uo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnShx...eature=related
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From: NO, VA
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
im curious, are you referring to the napa/fairfax auto parts in annandale? the guys at that machine shop have been there for a long time and def know their stuff (so i wouldnt worry about them not being reputable)
Thread Starter
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From: Annandale, VA
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
The first mechanic was Lee's auto on columbia pike, by the way.
Yeah dude, the fairfax auto at Merrified.
Glad for being assured that they know their stuff.
Yeah dude, the fairfax auto at Merrified.
Glad for being assured that they know their stuff.
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Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
A NAPA here in florida just machined the head on my y8, great price and fast turnaround.
I asked the machine shop about copper spray and he said the best advice he had was to follow the service manual, if it didn't require it, to not worry about it
I asked the machine shop about copper spray and he said the best advice he had was to follow the service manual, if it didn't require it, to not worry about it
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
For my B18A, that has 175k miles now, I replaced the HG with Felpro from Autozone. I didn't mill anything. I used new "ebay" head bolts. A week later, I drove to Las Vegas in 100+ degree heat. Then after that, I drove it harder and faster. That all happened a month or so ago. And today, the engine is running just fine without any complaints or issues.
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From: Miramichi, NB, Canada
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
You're guy isn't totally out to lunch. I've seen a lot of blown headgaskets in D-series engines (D15B7 in particular) where the engine was just never right after a headgasket replacement. Generally from what I've seen they tend to last 6 months to a year. The D16Y7/D16Y8s have a higher success rate as do the the D15Z1 and D16Z6.
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From: NW Indiana
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
You're guy isn't totally out to lunch. I've seen a lot of blown headgaskets in D-series engines (D15B7 in particular) where the engine was just never right after a headgasket replacement. Generally from what I've seen they tend to last 6 months to a year. The D16Y7/D16Y8s have a higher success rate as do the the D15Z1 and D16Z6.
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From: CAPITAL CITY Tallahassee D.S., Florida, U.S.A
Re: A mechanic saying, civic overheating needs engine overhaul?
I honestly think a lot of that has to do with taking the time to do the job right and using good replacement products. If you're just working at home, in your own garage, on your own car, you have a tendency to take more time and nitpick over small things... at least I know I do.