Hey Fellas,
I know this has been covered many times. I also have quite a bit of knowledge from the past, just been away from Hondas the past couple years since mine was stolen and stripped and don't know if there are new options I am unaware of. I have done extensive research on LSV setups and whatnot, I am just looking for real life experience with cams not just a dyno and peak HP numbers. I am going to start piecing together an LSV build to complete hopefully next summer. This IS my DD and gas mileage machine (lifted silverado at 10mpg doesnt quite cut it) that I want to track on occasion just for fun with my chevelle. SO with the said I want something that will have longevity, decent mileage and drivability. I love the Pro series cams for larger primaries, but have no experience as far as drivability, mileage, how hard they are on the VT etc. I also want to keep it as low on budget as possible but not sacrifice quality.
The cams I have in mind are:
1. S2P2
2. S2T3
3. Something with a JUN3 type profile
4. A custom Grind

I WAS going to just go the GSR route like my old car BUT got a screaming deal on a LS shortblock and goodies. (block, crank, rods, ITR oil and water pump, ACL race bearings BNIB w/ LSV lines and sandwich plate for $200)
With that said my setup is scheduled to be as follows
Bottom half:
82mm LS block
89mm crank
LS rods w/ arp bolts
P73-A0 pistons (best clearance and flame travel)

Top Half:
B16 or GSR head-depends what I find and price but the CR will be right at 12:1
-I will be getting the LMA's re-ground
ST or S2 VT dependant on price
ITR or S2 IM-Possibly PX if I find a good deal
70mm TB-portmatched of course
Speedfactory thermal gaskets
310-440 injectors
3" SRI w/ BPi stack and filter
S2 alpha or RMF Narrow header

Tranny:
S4C w/ LSD
Exedy stage 2 clutch and PP
ACT 8lb flywheel

This will be going in a 95 DX coupe, my goal is low-mid13's

Fell free to throw any and all ideas at me, I am open to everything. Someone throw me a set of prototypes to test??
Thanks

 

^^agree with thinking

 

Ferrea non vtec conversion if you have the cash much lighter valve train can go lighter on seat pressure and is a roller cam. will rev like no other Honda out there

 

go with a 4.9 FD with carbon synchros, this thing should haul ***. I have some new RC 440's, and have a friend who is a synchrotech dealer. Pm if interested.

 

I'll chime in later or tomorrow, Got home late and had tunings to do after. I'll post up a good response, i'm sure Mikey will also chime in with some stuff as well as another knowledge members.

 

I like the P73 pistons and 89mm crank.

From my experience, the smaller the primaries... the better the mpg. I would go for the Skunk2 tuner series, but not the stage 3s. I think the Stage 2s would work better. Jun3s would be even better. I Also have a pair of used M22x. If you are interested, PM me.

If you want to make this as cheap as possible, I would stick with the ITR Intake manifold. That and I would go with the Toda replica instead of the RMF replica. that combo made 248whp for me on my 2L, and was a blast to drive.

I would also stick with a 4.4 final drive unless u can change out the 5th gear along with it.

 

Thanks for the responses so far. I was debating as far as tuner series goes between 2 any 3. Gas mileage isn't a HUGE deal, I know I can still get high 20's which is fine. I wish I could find a set of jun 3's that aren't 1000 bucks. That would be my ideal cam. As for the FD I will keep the 4.4 for now. I don't wanna spin 4500 doing 65 to and from work. I'm on my phone so lll check in later and type up a better response to stuff.

 

i had pro 1's in a built b17's they were nice BUT, they were a tad agressive to for a stock b16/17 head and mild higher comp (11.1:1) IMO they were a tad laggy from idle to 2400 ish. mine only made 210whp on a COLD fl day, so i feel i could have stepped down a d had better results.

btw op my setup nothing crazy at all went 13.4@105 on DR, but was in a gutted crx hf Y1 lsd cable trans. so weight played ALOT in to et/mph (atleast i like to think so)

 

I will say with a higher final drive passing power and highway speeds is nice. Just roll on the throttle and staying in 5th part throttle you have to count MPH by the 5's because it moves pretty quick. It can get annoying with polyurethane mounts harder than 70A though.

 

I've bolded my responses. I like the setup. I have a lot of customers who come to me with "what they want" and we talk. Customers have input on what they want with camshafts, powerband, rev range, how it idles and everything in between. There are a lot of camshafts out there that can fit the needs as a shelf, drop in cam... and they all will serve a purpose, all this however depends on how much power you want to make and how much you want to spend.

 

I find that to not always be true.

Unstaggered primaries seem to provide more low/midrange torque and carries nicely into vtec.

Most people forget about valvetrain harmonics, which do play a role in wear and what not.. Going from a stockish primary lobe to a giant vtec lobe, does put unneeded stress on the valvetrain. They also provide for a smoother powerband and transition into vtec..

A toda header would probably be fine for a 1.8-1.6 liter, then again, it does do alright on SOME, 2.0's..
I think with some research and feedback the op's getting the answers he wants and in the end he'll get to where he wants.

 

For a DD? No thanks. I have a roller cam in my chevelle, which is cool and makes tons of power, but hondas are a diff story. I'll see if I can post a vid up of the chevelle...
I am going to do a complete rebuild on the tranny and I was going to use the synchrotech carbon gear set. For a DD I don't want a FD that short. 4.7 would be the highest i'd go. I loved my old S4C and the gearing for DD and occasional playing around. Ill get a PM to you once I figure out how much I have to spend this month.

I'll PM you about the RM cams, I don't know if they will be optimal for my setup, but they are a great cam to consider. As far as IM goes, I'm going to look for used, winter time around here is a good time to find used parts cause the rain sets in and everyone stops racing to build and upgrade. My choice would be 1. PX 2. S2 and 3. ITR

Thanks for the input. I know for a fact my compression will be 11.9-12.2ish so thats a solid stable number to start from. What are your thoughts on the RM M22X cams? I dont have much experience with them other than I've seen GREAT numbers from them.
Would you be able to grind me up something similar to a JUN 3? If I can find a Jun 3 that will be my cam, no ifs and or buts about it, Ive seen such solid numbers and builds based around them. Otherwise I'm leaning towards Pro 2's or Tuner 2's. I wish Blox wasn't such a shitbag company or I would get a set of the c's.
I am leaning towards the Skunk2 Alpha, seems to be the best bang for the back and best well rounded header on big 1.8's to 2L builds. I had the RMF narrow on my last motor and it did very well, but this motor will be a little bigger and from what I gather the S2 piece like a little more displacement.
As for clutches I had the exedy stage 2 on my last motor and loved how it felt. I like a slightly stiffer pedal, its a mental thing, I link my hand and foot better or something haha.

I still have ALOT of reading to do...basically matching cams w/ compression/displacement and my header is my step 1. the rest will take care of itself.

 

DDTECH:

Yea I definitely agree that going from a small lobe to the big Vtec wears the valvetrain more than a smooth transition that is present with bigger primaries, but i doubt the wear would be that bad if Vtec is kept at its usual 5750rpm and under. I am sure you know more about the topic than i do, but since the O.P. asked for real world experience, i decided to share my opinion. My opinion is that I've always had a smooth idle and part throttle with smaller primaries as well as better gas mileage. The bigger primaries have a stronger powerband, and transits into Vtec more smoothly , but its proven to get less mpg on my setups. Ive gotten 28-30 with the smaller primaries on rich/conservative tunes, whereas the bigger primaries offered 22-24. Not that big of a deal , but i also noticed part throttle is a bit trickier to tune .. especially when you dont have the compression or displacement to run it in the first place. Idle can be rough and lopey. In the end .. its up to u O.P. , but my vote still goes to the Skunk2 stage 2s .. keep it simple especially since this is a budget daily driver build .

About the header .. yea O.P. you can run the narrow or the alpha. I just threw the Toda in there because ive had alot of success with it on my 2.0L. I believe Mikey had alot of success with it as well on his 1.8L AND 2.0L. I hear the Narrow is pretty small after the merge , which is why i believe that header is better for 1.8L. Toda just seems to work on everything .. 1.6L-2.0L .. midrange .. top-end .. Once again .. my opinion .. do your research and make the call.

Rocket says the M22's Vtec lobe is in between a Pro1 and a Pro2. Since this is the X .. and NOT the XX , the primaries seem to idle great .. and i got 28mpg out of it. With the XX .. my idle was lopey , took alot of tuning to get part throttle close to stock .. and my mpg dropped to 24mpg. Yea if u r interested , PM me.

 

Your on the rite track we ran a back up motor 10.8:1 comp, DDtech street cams and e85 unported head and made 235hp with a 87 crank on a Rage Big tube but the s2 would be better over the narrow

 

Those are impressive numbers on a lower comp, stock port 87mm build . Can you elaborate on some more specifics? PM me if you don't want it out in the open. Ever get a track time with that setup? Those speak more wonders than a dyno
Just as a side note, one thing that is making this difficult is the fact our motors seem to respond VERY well to a bigger exhaust cam and the pro series has that down to a "T". Any thoughts on that?

 

Just because I mentioned it before, the motor I built this summer for the chevelle with a roller cam setup. Specs are duration 314/314 and lift .600/.600. 11:1 CR

 

A lot of good info in here Any more input in the Tuner 3's? I've had a set sitting around I got a great deal on a almost a year ago and planned on putting them in my similar setup (to the 'T' almost) but with PR3 pistons instead, motor felt great with GSR cams planning on installing after build of rest of car is complete (soon )

 

IMO the Tuner 2's will make more power sooner, the 3's will just peak a bit more top end, but miss some mid with out "smaller" setups. If you had a fully cnc'd **** n polish head and it was an all out race car then yea, 3's would kick ***. But if its a cruiser and a DD, I would rather get more usable power. If they were 12:1 2L builds it would be different.
I considered the PR3's, Ive run them in a few motors in the past, but I'd rather give more clearance, and more room for tuning. I know its a minimal fact BUT I have read numerous articles on the P73 pistons having the best flame travel of all the Bvtec pistons out of the factory.

 

If you're sticking to a budget, the Tuner2's has down right never seen "bad results."..

Pro1's would be something else to consider.

The Tuner3's are too big for this type of setup and goal..

IF gas mileage is in your idea or goal, go with a staggered primary type cam, like calvin suggested. I however, have had good gas mileage with unstaggered primaries. I also am a tuner though.. so lol.. *shrugs*.

 

yea .. thats exactly what i was saying Derek. for a simple setup, you cant really ever go wrong with the stage 2s , jun 3s , m22x . and they're so much easier to tune. I also agree the the stage3s are too big.

i spent alot of time with my s300 getting big primaries on 11.5:1 compression to not hesitate at part throttle. Adding/removing timing ... it just didnt like to run lean. liked to stay around 13.5-13.8 afr to be smooth. Idled around that area too. That same setup with the stage 2s accepted 14.7-15.1 afr easily. though i'm not a tuner, im sure Derek mightve had some tricks up his sleeves.

it was alot easier with the 12.8:1 compression setup. thats y i believe compression and displacement have to do with it. since you are barely a 1.9L and roughly low 12s compression, i thought the smaller primaries would work better. hope that helped

 

OP,

Don't know what your budget is but search Natural Aspirations, mar778c, B19coupe, ehsgirl, NickM. They have posted some of the highest power charts ever for a street car application.

 

Sorry it has taken me a few days to get back at you guys, been busy with work all weekend, its rained about 4 inches in 2 days and my job is a power and HVAC sepcialist haha. Anyways I appreciate the input, I'll elaborate on some topics below.
I was looking at the Tuner 2's simply because they always have been consistent. I am pretty set on picking up a set of the M22x's from calvin in the next couple weeks though. Unless someone has any reason that would make it a bad idea, for the price we aggreed on it follows my "budget minded build" perfect. As for tuning, I wiish I knew how to tune. Just never have the time or resources. I will be having James at Speedfactory tuning my car, and I'm sure you all know his reputation. I know i'm in great hands there.

You just want me to buy your cams Seriously though I've been reading up on the M22's quite a bit and have seen nothing but consistant results like the tuner 2's. Slightly lower peak numbers though.

Thanks for the input, I'll do some searches and see what I find.

As for budget I'm pretty sure I can have the bottom half w/ machine work done for right at $500.
All I have to buy are pistons/rings, bearings and pay to have it bored and rod bolts and pistons pressed. I got the block crank and rods for $200.

Then its a matter of finding a bare head to build, they seem to be going for right at $400 around here. The spendy part will be the Tranny, B16's are going for about 900-1100 depending if they have LSD around here. With that said I'm aiming for 2500 for the whole thing. I know it seems low but I've been working some good deals.
Keep it coming, I keep learning from myself and what you guys ave said. I'm not ignorant, I've been around the scene awhile and do know alot, but I know I dont know everything. I'm now trying to determine what header to mate up with the cams and bottom end. Skunk2 alpha is the best choice?

 

Just a bump and to get some ideas flowing.
I found a guy locally who will sell me a GSR block w/ B16 head and GSR tranny for $1200. It's too good of a deal to pass on so I might pick up the swap, sell the GSR short block and use the B16 head and GSR tranny. Now with that in mind I don't like the GSR gearing BUT would throwing a 4.9 FD in it be worth while and make it more like a 4.7 ITR tranny?

 

oh it def will i have this setup on my car now very nice had it on my 12.5:1 gsr build and it was really nice

 

hey, try not to overthink your setup. your goals arent hard to reach at all. a b18c5 with bolt ons and tune can run mid 13's. i have at the moment a b20z with sligthly ported pr3 head, supertech valves, ported itr manifold, 3 angle valve job, ctr cams, and e85. car was capaple of high 12's on slicks with its b16 transmission but never went to the track. i lost to a 2012 5.0 with bolt ons and sct tune making 410 whp by a car and a half from 40 roll. on your 1.8L stick with the performer x manifold, it will make good power and save you some torque. i believe its the best shelf manifold for a 1.8 liter. try some m22x or maybe check out gsc n1 cams. the toda rep is good too and has great ground clearance. if you can get an itr 4.7 trans for good price, get that. otherwise try the gsr with the 4.9 final drive.

REMEMBER, dont overthink it! its not that hard to accomplish what you want.