Hey guys,

I don't post here much, but have been lurking for years, but haven't had any need for help (until now!). Definitely the best Honda place online! Thanks in advance for any help you're able to give me with my issue here.

I picked up a 2003 Civic EX with the D17A2 and a 5 speed a few months ago. The car is high mileage (230k), but ran great. I put around 5k on it with zero issues at all over the summer (minus having to replace the original battery in July).

This week my CEL came on, so I cleared it and it was back within 30 miles. Codes given were P0300, P0303, and P0304 - Multiple/General missfire, missfire on cyl 3, and missfire on cyl 4, respectively. I didn't notice any misses, stumbles, or rough running at all.

I pulled all of the plugs and they were definitely due for replacement (gaps were all around .051") so I dropped in a set of NGK plugs and cleared the codes again. Ran great for around 15 miles in town.

Drove for 60 miles on the freeway up and down a mountain pass and all is well. At this point I'm feeling pretty great about actually having a simple fix and having it running so well!

Pulled in for some dinner, but as I got into the onramp the CEL came on again. As before, I noticed no stumbling or rough running at all. About 40 miles later I accelerated from 70mph to 75mph to pass a car going up a hill and the car had a very definite miss. I pulled into the right lane and slowed to around 65mph. Coming down the summit of the mountain about 3 miles later I experienced another miss and the car died completely.

Pushed in the clutch and the car started right back up, but died within a few seconds. Pulled over and the car immediately started again, but died within seconds with zero load on the engine (out of gear, idling). I once again started the engine and gave it a little gas. It remained idling for about 2 minutes while I was on the phone to get a tow before it died again. After this I couldn't get the car to start and got my tow back home.

Any clues on what the problem could be? I'm guessing injectors or coil packs, but don't want to jump the gun!
Tomorrow morning I'll get a scan tool on it to see what codes it's throwing. I'll also pull the plugs and read them to get an idea of fueling conditions around the time it died. I'll definitely be checking for spark as well, but don't have a fuel pressure gauge to confirm pressure. How does one go about testing the injectors and coil packs?

edit: I just downloaded the FSM (here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/oa...em2_repair.zip) and will follow the steps for diagnosing the P030x codes in the morning. It's section 11-80 (p.373) in the "civic repair and maintenance" PDF if anyone is following along.

I have quite a bit of experience working on cars in general (swapped 2 of my datsun Z cars, my best friend's 65 c10, and my dad's 69 camaro), but nothing this new. The general automotive knowledge and being mechanically inclined is there, but the honda know-how is not!

Thanks in advance!

 

Things I have checked:

ECU fuse is intact.

 

Note: scan your codes BEFORE you check the ECU fuse. Pulling the fuse resets the ECU and clears all of the codes it has stored.

Car started right up this morning without hesitation. I'm still going to go through the 11-80 procedure for the P030x codes. Car needs to be reliable by tomorrow for work!

 

Got the car to reproduce the miss (and subsequent dying) and the CEL came on. Gave code P0341 for a camshaft position sensor. No P030x or other codes were given this time.

Going to replace the sensor and will report back after.

 

Cleared the code and installed a Honda OEM (made by Mitsubishi) crank position sensor. It is part number is 37840-RJH-006, which is also referred to as a TDC sensor. It was $71+tax from my local dealer, but they can be had cheaper online or as non OEM parts from any of the big stores. Car seems to be running great now!

The process is very straightforward, but is covered in section 6-57 of the FSM. Black28 has a pictorial walk through of it over on civicforums here:
http://www.civicforums.com/forums/11...nt-w-pics.html

 

Had the same thing happen to mine. Pretty common for the sensor to go bad around that mileage.

 

Thanks for the input Djratrap! I didn't know that it was a common issue.

I guess I spoke too soon about everything being okay! The next time I went to drive the car it wouldn't start. I cranked it twice for about 5-7 seconds each time, but I had somewhere to be so I jumped in my truck instead.

This morning the civic started right up and seemed to run fine on the way to work, but about halfway there the CEL came on. Drove it the rest of the way there (about 5 mi) and scanned the code in the parking lot. P0420 for catalyst system efficiency below threshold.

I reset the ECU and performed the idle relearn procedure on my lunch break. Drove the car about 3 miles after that without issues. After I got off I drove an additional 15 miles without issues.

This evening I had the CEL come on again while driving on the freeway although the car was running fine. After the light came on it felt like it might have been down on power a touch, but it also could have been a placebo effect. Scanned it when I got home and got P0301, P0302, P0303, and P0300 for missfires on 1, 2, 3, and repeated/multiple. Also got P0420 for the catalyst, but I'm thinking that if the car was missing it would be passing unburnt fuel into the exhaust and over both O2 sensors.

Before this started I had misses on 3 and 4. Now I'm getting them on 1, 2, and 3. What could cause seemingly random missfires across the board?

If I got them on 3/4 again I would be a lot more comfortable as I could start swapping components between 1/2 and 3/4 until I isolated the problem. With them being inconsistent I'm a little more stumped. I guess I'll start with the 11-80 procedure in the FSM since that's the symptoms I'm experiencing again.

Any input, advice, or suggestions you guys might have is always appreciated!

 

Your cat maybe shot, it does have a ton of mileage on it. Does your exhaust make rattling noises? If so there's a good chance your cat is shot. As for the misfiring it could be anything from coil packs (highly unlikely) to spark plugs. If your cat is bad there is also a good chance your secondary O2 is out.

 

I replaced the plugs with new NKGs when I got misses on 3/4 as step number one as the old ones definitely needed it.

I don't have any rattling in my exhaust, but I can give the cat a shake to confirm that the honeycomb hasn't fallen apart. I would think that it would run like compete crap if that was the case since there would be a huge obstruction to flow.

I'm not getting an error on any of the O2 sensors and I haven't gotten the catalyst code again. I'll log my 02 sensor voltages on the way to work tomorrow with the scan tool I have.

I drove it around for probably 20 miles after work today trying to get the CEL to come on again, but didn't get it to come on. When I got home I scanned the codes anyway and had P0303, P0304, and P0300 all "pending".

I'm going to move the coil packs from 1/2 to 3/4 tonight and see if the codes throw or go pending on 1/2. If not I'll swap plugs from 1/2 to 3/4 on my lunch break and see if the codes follow those.
I really don't see it following the plug though since they're brand new and I was having issues on 3/4 when this all started.