Im 16 and recently got my license. I've been driving my dads Nissan X-terra with 350z engine in it for years so i want a car that gets out of its own way obviously. Which si is best to start off with and eventually upgrade?
I was looking at the 2001-2005's... any advice?

 

I would go 06+ newer Si. Major power difference between 01-05s and 06+. Worth the extra dough

 

I can really afford 06 and newer.... gsr swapped civics seem to go pretty cheap though... whats the word on those?

 

If you can afford it get an 06 civic si. Comes k20ed and 6 spd w/ Lsd. Cant go wrong their.

 

I loved my 09 civic si! Never gave me a problem! But you cant go wrong with a b18c swapped civic or a gsr integra

 

Anything swapped has the potential to be a headache due to hack job swaps. I would be very cautious buying a swapped Civic.

02-05 is probably the worst Si. I like the 88-91s for sentimental reasons but the 06-11(?) are probably the best ones ever made.

 

I agree with all of this. A swap seems cheap at face value, but with the potential issues you can run into during ownership and the question marks you'll have in your head about how many miles are actually on the swapped/rebuilt engine.

As an owner of a '91 Si, I have to say it's been a fun car and great to work on as well as drive, but I would try and get a late model chassis that is easier on maintenance and much more comfortable than the early models. A late model civic won't turn into a money pit like the older ones will. When parts are old, they break, and a car is the "gift that keeps on taking" [from your wallet]

 

Based on what it sounds like the money you want to spend I would go with the EP3 Si as you get a reliable K-series and you can begin with some modification.

I'm actually planning on buying one next spring as a dedicated track car after an enjoyable ride along in one this summer with an instructor who had one. I liked tracking my STI and R32, but too expensive a mistake if you go off-track...

 

Ep3s and Dc5s both have a bad reputation because the suspension design doesn't allow you to lower the car >~1". most people do it anyway and those are the people who complain about the car as a whole. If you don't lower the car, it's faster on corners that any of the other civics except fd2.

ep3/dc5 chassis are the only usdm FF honda chassis to have dynamic rear toe/camber angles which respond to wheel loads. The result is more grip in the rear and a feeling of the rear end steering itself, which can be controlled by weight transfer and throttle inputs too if you have an LSD. The combination of the higher rear CG of the hatchback design and the shorter wheelbase (same as dc2: 101.5") compared to both the ek civics and the the newer models maximize the ep3's ability to utilize that handling element. Most FF cars struggle with rear weight transfer because you must keep front grip to do so, which can be more difficult than with other platforms because FFs turn and accelerate with the same tires. This is why beginners complain that FF cars are slower, but if you can transfer the weight to the back, the car is balanced and you'll be just as fast if not faster than any FR with the same tires, depending on the track. If you're going to be driving on country roads and the track, and lowering your car for aesthetics isn't important to you, the ep3/dc5 is probably your best option.

Ep3's are cheaper to light-tune than any of the previous civics too. No expensive aftermarket reinforcements are needed to stiffen the chassis; stock, the chassis is way stiffer to begin with than dc/ek/eg (50%x/100%y, claims honda). The strut towers are attached to the firewall which means a front strut tower bar isn't needed. The rear shock gussets from the 05-06 rsx plus the dc5 type-r rear tower bar are a perfect fit. rsx gussets cost $20 shipped used. type-r, and usdm rsx a-spec suspensions can be bought for >$600 and perform near the chassis' maximum potential. The front swaybar on the usdm ep3 is the same size as on the jdm ep3 type r, and the 21mm rear sway bar from the 05-06 rsx-s is only 1mm smaller than the type plus costs only $50 shipped used.


Older models equipped with chassis reinforcements, suspension, etc are super fast. Finding one used with those parts [or more] installed would probably be cheaper and just as fast as light-tuning the ep3 from scratch, if you can indentify a good specimen.

 

Great write up ^^ and by a fellow WI guy nice... where abouts in WI?


99 civic SI Kswapped.

 

Personally, I think it depends on your mechanical know-how, or your resources. You can find many older model Civics with swaps.. but as others have suggested, it may be a risky purchase due to unknown work on the vehicles.

In addition.. it really depends on your personal goals on what cars to buy. If you want less headaches, and a car that comes "out of the box" faster than all other Si's, go with 06+ Si's.

If you don't mind tinkering with cars, or maybe learning a little on your way.. I'd suggest finding a 99-00 Si.. Though they are rare, and even more so if they're unmolested, it's a nice platform, that doesn't require a swap to be decent. Even a GSR would be a good find, over a swapped car.

Just my two cents.

 

Madison. We should get some guys together and rip around the driftless region this spring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driftless_Area.... If you dare. It's my home course. Any day man. In the spring the car will have kpro/cams which would make the match more interesting than with the stock a3 ecu/cams... yours will still have a >115hp advantage, but your car is lowered. .....

As for the last post. A 99-00 si is the same quickness as the ep3, dispite a 150lb weight advantage... This is because of the pure chassis performance of the ep3. Plus because they're more saught-after, the price difference between that and the ep3 would be negligible. Swapping suspension/sways/ reinforcements costs nearly twice as much for the older models compared to the dc5/ep3, plus adding kpro+used cams+ rh/i/ex would get way more power than building the b16a2 in the older si. A gsr is a better option, but you're still faced with overcoming the flimsier chassis.

 

EM1

 

As much as I love my EP3 (just dropped $300 on dynotuning last night, still love driving this thing), you may be a little underwhelmed with the K20A3. If you want a higher revving engine that "cracks VTEC" as my young coworker puts it, I'd say go with an Integra GSR or 99-00 Civic Si. They both seem to be going for the same price as an EP3 (at least in my area). I'm also in love with the 88-91 Si.

EDIT: just realized this post is four months old. Whoops.

 

just turned 16 and you've been driving for years?

 

^^Your dad never let you steer the car couple blocks from the house? Let you shift the gears in the passenger seat? I did that from like 8 to like 10. Not often, but enough to catch on.

 

Beside the cams the engine is not that much different from the a2. The ep3 a3 is closer to the a2 than the base rsx a3, plus the gear ratios kick *** (same as dc2 type r). People who put the a2 rocker assembly/ cams and i/h/e make with kpro makes similar power to the a2 with the same mods.

Besides the cams the downfalls are:

-weaker rods
-slightly lower compression
-slightly less head airflow
-worse oil pump

The rods and pump limit the revs, and the head flow makes it undesirable for upgrading internally. But if you don't plan on spending thousands building the engine, k20a3's can make type-s/fg2 beating power for about as little as it gets in terms of engine tuning. Boltons plus kpro plus cams will make about 200whp; a k20a2 type-s with i/h/e would make about 185 whp. Achieving 200whp with the b16a2 si would cost thousands. 200whp b18 would be less, but still twice the cost of the ep3 setup.

Don't forget that the car is also faster than the b16a2 si, despite having the same power and weighing 150 lbs more. The chassis is way stiffer and the geometry is faster.

People are too quick to diss the ep3 and k20a3. It is one of the cheapest, fastest, funnest cars to tune for sure...

 

I have a 1993 Honda Civic Si right now, planning on a k swap and some other goodies. Like a garage to protect it.

I miss my EP, hands sown best Si made yet. Cheap, easy to mod, automatic windows, and it's a hatch.

PS Anything you can do to the 06 Si you can do to the EP and the suspension is better.

 

 

I would say that the EM1(99-00) really is the best Si ever made...from purely a Honda enthusiast perspective. It's also one of the worst performing Si's ever made. But the Si name plate wasn't ALL about performance. I think the EM1 has more soul and a better driving dynamic than any other Si....except maybe the 88-91 Si.

A GSR swapped 96-00 civic will perform better than an Si. But it's extremely lame. A real 99-00 Si is not lame. That's the difference between most non Si and Si civics. There's usually not really too many chassis differences like there are on Type R models.

The best performing Si is definitely the 06-11. It's weird to have an Si that's actually fast. It doesn't really blur the lines between Si and Type R...but the performance is there.

EP3s are a weird chassis. It's a great car...but WTF is with the 7500RPM redline and no "real" VTEC? It's still fun to drive and it still has the "special" feel that you get from owning an Si.

If you're looking for an Si that is quick: 06-11 Si.
If you're looking for one that you can connect with: EM1.