Ok guys need some serious help. I have researched extensively and applied what I have searched for, but am still having trouble.

Here's my setup:

Precision 5857, sleeved 84mm b16, stock Ignition system, p28 Neptune RTP, 1000cc Bosch Injectors, running E85.

I'm using the stock ignition/Dist. since it SHOULD be good for my power goals (550whp). It's the OEM OBD1 GSR Dist. I'm tuning this myself, and feel like I have done a pretty darn good job so far. Taking it slow, reading plugs, adding boost, listening for Det., checking plugs for det., rinse and repeat, etc. Fuel pressure and Batt. voltage both hold steady all the way to redline.

When I get to around 15-16 psi, I get bad spark blowout/breakup.

I have run through RonJ@HT's (most excellent) DIY spark diagnosis method a few times. Ignition coil passes the ohm test. Tec brand, so it's for sure OEM. Igniter passes the O'Reilly parts diagnosis machine test, for whatever that's worth. Ohm test on the CYP/CPK/TDC sensors all within spec. Using the NGK 7's gapped to .16, then tried the 8's gapped the same. Still breaking up. Gap doesn't make a difference. Timings maps in Neptune read 19.5* at 16psi, not that that helps anyone. Black/yel power wire to the Dist. supplies same as Batt. (12.7v). Dist. Cap, Rotor, wires all new.

I have been testing my spark with the KD tools HEI tester with great success. Love that little tool for checking spark. Last night I realized that i have been testing with the engine cold all this time, last night I decided to test with the engine hot, and what do you know? The spark wouldn't even jump the gap on the tester! Coil still tests out, even with the engine hot as I swapped in a known good COOL coil with the same result.

Getting ready to tear my hair out. Anyone? Please?

 

Swap in another complete distributor, and give it a shot.

 

Will do. Tonight I'm going to pick up a different Dist. from a guy here locally to try it out. Just trying to figure if the problem is mechanical or tuning related.

What's the possibility of this being a symptom of not enough timing/incomplete burn since I'm on e85? I don't hear a lot of other guys having this problem on E85 as it relates to tuning timing. Any tuners on here that have run across this type of behavior as it relates to e85 and timing?

Only other thing I can think of is my igniter unit. I know it passed testing, but it doesn't have any sort of brand name on it. I have heard only OEM units have "NEC" or some such branding stamped on them. My Dist. is a Distributor King OEM brand from back in the day (RIP).

I have read that Ignition Control Modules either work or they don't though....

 

Get rid of that Distributor King hunk of garbage! Try an OEM distributor with OEM parts, even if its used!

 

Even used OEM VTEC units are becoming more scarce. And have you seen the price on buying a new OEM one through a dealer lately? Out of the question. I'd rather do TheShodan's Summit Box/External Coil combo since it's way less than even the cost of a new ICM unit alone!

My biggest question is if anybody knows whether its normal for the spark to weaken as the Dist/engine heats up through normal driving. Datalogging through Neptune shows underhood temps climbing as far as 120F. If so, then this is my problem. Anyone?

 

damaged/overheated ICM's can act fine when cold and then start to get funky when warmed up. I've seen this personally.

Correct me if I'm wrong the Summit Box + External coil still requires the oem ICM. But the oem ICM has a ton of load taken off it. I'd look into swapping the dizzy and/or icm as a test to see if this is truly the problem. You can get the summit box but if the icm is bad the summit box may not help you at all.

 

I had breakup issues at 0.016 last summer, added an Accel Internal coil and was able to bump that up to 0.020 without issues. So may want to try that as it is relatively cheap ($50)

 

That's why its an external coil that's used, so that it replaces the Internal Coil Module. Its the ignitor that stays within the distributor.

 

This is also a cool idea for those that know that their ICMs are dying but not the ignitors. you can keep your OEM distributor and just change the ICM, with an Accel unit.



Like Lighteningteg said.. $50 and free shipping, can't be beat.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-11076/overview/

 

TheShodan, I keep hearing to stay away from anything aftermarket that would be used to replace an OEM configuration, as it just cant stack up to OEM quality. I'm talking about Ebay Distributors, Napa/AutoZone/Oreilly internal replacement parts.

As long as out-of-production OEM ignition parts get more and more expensive, the aftermarket options are looking more and more tempting. I don't want to do anything that will introduce a whole new set of problems though.

 

I think you have your lingo incorrect.

I reference ICM as IGNITION CONTROL MODULE / igniter, which is not the coil.

As do all the helms documents and Internet references as well.

 

Acknowledged. Regardless, that is the component that was removed. not the ignitor itself which is a different component even according to Helm's (AKA "the bible").

 

Yes, from what I understand ICM/Internal Control Module/Ignitor are all names for the same thing. The COIL is a seperate unit, (still inside the distributor) and my COIL is within spec using an Ohm meter.

I also understand there is no clean test for the ICM, short of taking the unit to AutoZone and having them hook it up to their ancient diagnostics machine. Good luck with that though, as I took mine to 2 different AutoZones and at one it passed, and the other it failed. ???

 

Thats why I recommend you try swapping the ICM or entire dizzy with a friend temporarily to see if the problem is resolved. I've had countless ICM issues in the past which is why I eventually bit the bullet and went with a m&w pro 10 unit.

 

The helms doesn't reference anything called the "igniter"... In both the electrical and service manuals for integra/prelude/civic etc. I have digital copies of about every honda/acura out there :-)

 

everything may be passing the test while cold, vibration free!!! i would replace coil with the accel unit, as i havent heard anything bad about the accel coils for our hondas, and try to get ahold of a oem igniter, d and b series will work but im unsure about bolts lighning up through the side of the dizzy

 

Here. So that we're on the SAME PAGE, and stop this nonsense. Check your reference sources again. I have both these units in my garage now as spare parts.






Illustration #8 is the IGNITOR unit. Not the ICM Part # 30130-P72-006 . These are over $195 alone

Illustration # 12 is the ICM (IGNITION COIL) Part # 30510-PT2-006 These are about $96. But the Accel Replacement can be used.

These are not merged as the same unit.

 

listen to Theshoadn. Dont be cheap. Get a summit or Mallory ignition box crane ps92 or lx92 coil and either build or buy an icm delete box and you'll have a rock solid ignition system that is easy on the wallet. About 285 bucks is all it will cost. This is the setup i run in my car. Able to maintain a .0030 gap on my plugs with ethanol fuel at 28 psi boost. After that boost pressure had to gap them down a little but you get the idea. Larger gap = better burn which in turn = more power output

Summit ignition -SUM-850610. $149.95
Crane coil - 730-0892. $72-16
Icm delete box - I sell them or you can build one. $70.00

 

Still have mine after almost 10 years.. I keep my spark gap at .0030" on Stock # 6855 NGK 7s at over 530whp on C16 and 460whp on 93 octane.

 

I've had mine for about 5 years and haven't had a single issue with it. Your able to run 7's with that much power? I needed to switch to 8's and still was a little hot for my liking and went with 9's. that was at 540 on mustang dyno but trap speeds were more like 600whp.

 

Its not non-sense. Its confusing to me other other people.. Quit calling the coil the ICM, because it simply not. I know that the igniter is NOT the coil. I'm just saying the helms doesn't reference it as the ignitor, it references it as the ICM.

Here's my reference sources :-)
From the helms:

 

I was hoping both of you guys would chime in.

I read your other threads where you suggest the Summit/Crane setup, and then in the same breath I see experiences from people that say for my mild power goals (550-600) there is no need to depart from an OEM configuration which with slightly tighter gaps, (I know, I know) can be run well beyond my goal.

No matter what you call them, I know the difference between the ignition parts and what they do. It just seems like one of my OEM ones is failing, and first I aim to find out which. If I can't... Summit box setup here I come.

You guys have suggested either the MSD Blaster SC Coil, or the Crane Coil with that upgraded system. The MSD is a tad cheaper, can I get the same results with either coil on the same ign. box?

Thanks for all your help so far. I've been on honda-tech for almost 10 years now-never had to post a thing till now. Anytime I had a problem, I searched and usually found an answer. Shows how far you can get just by reading and applying what you learn

 

I'm going by MY helms manual and the Honda service guide. Someone goes to a dealer, they'll use that terminology, not necessarily yours. The Nonsense I'm referring to is from strictly the lack of use of visual pictures to express our perspective points. Now that we've both shown that, the nonsense is over. ok? Are you over this yet, or are you getting emotional over this? Its the internet, for heaven's sake.. relax.

At this point, its splitting hairs anyway. The OP understands the differences and is acting for whatever he feels is within his best interest.

Tomato, Tomaato

OP, Simply because power is made on the dyno on the stock components, doesn't mean it stays that way once the dyno is over. driving is completely different on the effects of these components, so its always best to think ahead when it comes to spark distribution. saves mileage and fuel now, and better results for the long run.

As for whether or not to use Crane vs, Mallory, vs MSD for the ignition coil itself, you can choose however you wish, one is not that much "better" than the other. the differences are the ability to replace or refund if necessary. MSD can do that more easily, while Mallory or Crane doesn't (but nor will you need to).

Again, it sup to you at that point.

 

That gave me a chuckle

 

The hvc coils from mad will work but aren't cheap. The crane is best bang for the buck. Blaster SS coils are junk