Hey Guy's well I decided that I would change out the timing belt water pump and tensioners on my 96 Accord Lx 2.2. This is my 1st time doing a Japanese car so I asked my Bud to print me the procedure from All Data and after studying it and asking some questions I gave it shot. After some swearing and banged up knuckles I buttoned things up and tarted it up. She fired imeadiatly on the 2nd crank hi idled fine then in trasision began to idle rough? Almost like it had a vacume line off? I check and all looked ok? Could I have been off a tooth? I double and tripple checked all around and made sure that everthing was lined up perfectly? What happened?

 

OK, the timing procedure for these motors is a bit advanced for the first timer but well within the realm if followed exactly. It sounds like you may have gotten the ballancer shaft out of sync with the timing belt.
There is a plug un the back of the motor (drivers side) that must be removed to assist in timing the ballancer belt. I think that it is a 14mm bolt. It looks a little out of place and should be easy to spot. After pulling it you'll see it's just a plug really; then you can stick a short phillips screwdriver(about 6") into the hole while turning the ballance shaft to line up on the motor with the pulley.
All of this must be held in place while the tensioner is being set on the timing belt at TDC (all other marks lined up). If everything jives, tighten it down, pull the screwdriver and re-install the plug. Good luck.

 

Yes I am aware of this and followed the All Data Procedure to the letter. I woul think that if the balancer where out sink the engine would have been shaking violently on fast idle? It was as smooth as can be. I checked and double checked all of the the timing as the book directions said and still there is some issue? Any other ideas? Can that balancer be locked backwards? I put the bolt through to hold as directed.. Not sure what happened at all??

 

OK, I do not intend to insult your effort at all, sorry if I came accross that way. I have a couple of questions, did you turn the motor over after tightening the tensioner to be certain the marks traveled well and alligned. The ballance shaft marks WILL NOT re-allign after you turn it over, unless you turn it back the same turns to verify. It rotates at a different speed than the crank and cams. If you did, then don't bother doubelchecking and tearing down the cover, it's right. Is there a check engine light now?
Also many of these cars have cruise control that has to be removed to do the belts. The vaccum hose that runs to the cruise could appear to be connected as it lays in that general direction, just doublecheck that. Removing the valve cover to time it can disturb a couple hoses, air breather return and PCV, (could also be a bad PCV), pull it out and shake it up and down. Do you hear a rattle, if yes it's probably ok.
I'll wait to hear from you. Good luck

 

Nah I didn't think that at all,and in fact vry much appriciate the help! I turned things over a couple times and th engine appeared to come back to TDC with all lining up (crank and cam) what's your gut saying? Do you think that I might be off a tooth? I double checked the vac. Stuff it all looked ok? Remember this rig has 250k anything is possible! You know the bottom cover was preaty much destroyed so I think I will tervit down again and check the timing aragment one more time. What else can it be? What puzzles me is when this is done on a V8 there is NO smoothness whatsoever!! The engine bucks and barley starts! Is the computer compensating at high idle for that one tooth? I'm not giving up until I get it correct! Keep the ideas comming and one again I appriciate the help!
R

 

I don't technically know how much a tooth off is but I think it's about 10 degrees at the cam, a real lot actually. You could find nearly the exact top dead center for the #1 piston (the one on the timing cover side) buy removing the sparkplug and putting a long straw or screwdriver in the hole and turning it until it pops out the farthest; then check your cam gear marks again. That's easier than tearing it down again.
Once you trust the setting you can rule out the tooth question.
Also, these motors are known for having very poor ballancers, the outter ring comes loose in their old age and they move all over. Sometimes they really chew up the cover bad, sometimes they go the other way and fly off through the hood or something. The marks for the timing will not be correct if it has slipped even a little. I have replaced two of these on my Hondas, H22 and F22.

 

If everything is lined up and hooked up. I would start by checking to see which cyl is misfiring.

 

What method would I use to Check this? Spark plug wires? I'm thinking something else is happening here just not to sure?
On anther note anyone have a lower 2.2 cover they want to sell? This one is very rough...

 

Ok so I'm a rookie! It appears that the timing is indeed off a tooth. After checking it again I was close but NO Cigar! What is the easiest way to keep things in time once you have tightened the belt? I mean How does one keep the belt in the right position? This can't be that tough! Can the engine be run befor the cover is installed? I have Big Hands and Truly want to put this sucker to bed! Plus I'm spending a whole lot of Dough on Diesel and pilling up to many miles on my Truck!

 

changing the belt does change engine performance as the slack is now gone usually just a timing light and tweek on the distributer setting will smooth it out.

 

Hmm I wonder? I suppose I should stop wondering and actually check to see if I am off! Do you believe that it can be off that far as to cause a rough idle once warm? Anyway to check the engine with th running covers off?? I would like to fire it up before reassembling the cover in case it has to be adjusted ...

 

yes it is okay to start the car without the covers. those are one there to really stop stuff from damaging the belt while driving. you are just testing so go ahead do it, like the guy said just take out #1 cylinder spark plug out put a straw and turn the crank by hand until you reach the highest point after that leave it there check the markings on the cam. one should say up and two that should align with the head. if you are still doubting it. take off the distributor cap off while cylinder one is in tdc and see if the rotor points to #1 spark plug

 

Ok guys your not going to believe this but here go's anyway! I have a Bud that works on Foreign cars and he told me that when these cars have higher miles you may have to give the engine some time to smooth out. He said that the Lifters might be flat? Well he must have been correct because I started the car it went through the warm up then transitioned to normal idle bucked a bit and smoothed out! Yes!! I through my timing light on it (after marking those little notches and bingo! Perfect! The timing that is! Now my Dipstick is leaking oil like a sieve! Anyone know how that O-ring is supposed seat on that stick? It fell off when I removed it so simply pushed it back on the stick untill the 1st ridge? Is that correct? If it is I have a bigger issue! I also did the Crank seal I sure hope that isn't leaking! Don't see how? Only one way to put that on right Guy's?
Good thing I like doing this stuff!

 

well i guess either you're lifters might need a adjustment even tho they don't tick they could still be out of spec and cause rough idle if the lifters are flat like your buddy said, sounds like he knows what he is doing. its crazy how a brand new belt can change things in engine performance and idle hahaha

 

What I meant by flat is they lost pressure as they sat idle for a couple week's. This is a possibility with the hydraulic lifter... I ran and smoothed out so all is good

 

Just know that your car does not have hyd lifters More like the car need to relearn idle.

If your car does have hyd lifters...I've got to see this....Pic's, pic's

 

Correct, we have valve lash clearance.

 

I stand corrected. I typicly do not work on these types of engines so I'm learning as I go. I have been playing around with the American V8 engine for a long time so this stuff is a bit differant.. I will say this since putting 15k on this old 96 I have a new respect for the Honda automobile. Smart engineering very reliable fairly easy to fix. Once you know what your doing that is...
Thanks to all who have assisted.....