Hey everyone,

Alot of you have seen me posting in the FI forums for awhile. To introduce myself, if I haven't before, my name is Adrian.

I have some thoughts and questions regarding this topic, since it is quite unorthodox and may seem more difficult to setup than originally thought.
But alas, I would like to throw it out there, view some technical information and gather some plausible trial and error tips if it has been tried before.

Before those forum "FANBOYZ" start a ruckus in here, I will just point out that I am a licensed mechanic and have been building, restoring and racing Honda/Acura vehicles for 10+ years. I build all my engines/transmissions/setups myself and used to partake in many years of custom fabrication from charge piping to manifolds and everything in between.

I am in no way, shape or form a "newb", young punk or high school kid that doesn't know what he is getting into. This thread is meant to be serious and to address issues I have in my area of the world.


With that being said, here is some background information about the issues:

I currently live in Calgary, Canada. Basically, spitting distance from the rocky mountains. Our elevation is approximately 3500ft above sea level and we have a very dynamic weather and temperature pattern, as anyone near the coast lines or mountains can vouche how quickly weather/temperature changes.

For the most part during our short summer season, we have a steady but hot daytime temperature and a warm but progressively cooling evening or even vice-versa. Weather can and does change within an hour or less. The air density changes cause boost creep on every FI setup in this part of the country.


My issue is this:

Currently my street car is running 18psi (400whp on a Dyno Dynamics) on a traditional style TurboSmart MBC boost "T". I do already have my HONDATA EBC with MAC solenoid that was previously hooked up during initial tuning, but the tuner had issues setting up the duty cycle after 13Psi or so. Tuner choices here are slim to none. Also, unsure that the solenoid has issues, but that will be dealt with if so.

After weeks of running around at 12-13Psi (330whp), I decided to ditch the EBC and installed the MBC, turned up the boost to 16Psi, then 18Psi after tuning the fuel maps again.

At 400whp, as alot of you know, 1st and 2nd gear are useless, especially with a 4.7fd LS trans. But the setup dead-hooks in 3rd. I want to hook the Hondata EBC back up, start from scratch and setup BBG for traction in all gears.

The problem is, the EBC will need to be adjusted via laptop anytime our temperature goes below a certain point and the air density changes so drastically that I can see 19, 20, 21Psi, which in case would constantly hit boost cut in any gear.


The solution discussion:

I have not personally tried this yet, but the theory is there.

With my MBC, a few simple clicks back and my boost level can remain at a safe level (for the night).

Taking this into consideration, does anyone think it is possible or has anyone tried to run the Mac solenoid with the MBC setup in series so that in the event of a severe temperature drop/density increase, the boost can be adjusted accordingly with a few simple clicks and avoid carrying around my laptop and adjusting the boost table every different night.

I understand this can result in a redundancy and a relationship will need to be found on the duty cycle from the MAC solenoid to the full open position of the MBC.

Maybe I am over-thinking the situation. When it comes down to it, I am trying to simplify a solution to the weather changes in my area and setup my pressure levels within seconds, rather than lugging a laptop around and logging into the ECU and uploading a change that may need to be repeated several times before it is correct.

Just to confirm, I am not having any mechanical boost creep issues, my TIAL V44 WG is working flawlessly, at a steady ambient temperature the WG is regulating to a steady 18psi as desired.


Coles notes:

-Currently running 18psi with an MBC.
-Want to run Hondata EBC with BBG to correct traction issues in 1st and 2nd gear for a more enjoyable driving experience.
-Thinking of ways to manually adjust boost level with MBC and retain operation of the Hondata EBC under weather/air density changes to prevent over-boosting.
-In theory, a few clicks back on the MBC and the required max boost level is achieved and the EBC can function normally without the potential of hitting boost-cut.

Any thoughts, questions, opinions, guidance or positive discussion is greatly appreciated as it will help not only me, but possibly others who may be running into the same issues.

Thanks in advance,

-Adrian

 

My tuner is having the same problem setting up my Hondata boost controller because it is so "touchy". We are going to try and setup bbg at the track. I am also running a 4.78 final drive.

 

Have you adjusted the temperature correction tables in the Parameters window? This would be where I would start first if not. Also, using a 4 port MAC solenoid - Model # 46A-AA1-JDBA-1BA would be the solenoid of choice. Tends to offer more precision over the standard 3 port MAC.

 

Also make sure the frequency is properly setup, the default number normally doesn't work well with our fast revving motors.

 

Thanks N3va

I have adjusted those values before, but with not much luck, although I'm guessing it will take some time and several adjustments to find the right range and duty % reduction.

I will also look into the 4-port MAC solenoid. I am currently using the standard 3-port.


Tuner and I had issues setting up the frequency during last years tuning session. I have reason to believe either the tuner has sub-par experience setting up the solenoids since it took him close to 1 hour while strapped on the dyno to get the frequency and duty cycles working to SOME degree. But, the solenoid itself may have an issue, I know they are notorious.

Either way, I will be confirming all this soon. Which is why I want to reset everything to default and start from scratch. If I find out my solenoid is garbage I will look into that 4-port MAC.

Thanks wantboost

 

Solution:
1. Setup air temperature compensation table.
2. Setup high & low boost tables. (low table with slightly lower values if you encounter overboosting conditions etc.)

 

That is a rigged fix, but "mtber" is correct, you can select an avctivation input to switch maps if you experience problems and go between maps with a toggle switch. The better solution will be to fine tune everything in the advanced compensation tables. We experience all four seasons as well (although not as fast of a temperature change) with temperatures reaching below 0* on occasion. It would seem your tables are not tuned fully as I have had no problems with varying temperatures when all factors are setup correctly. In my opinion the 3 ports are more touchy than the 4 ports with Hondata, but the 3 ports are a standard because they are cheaper.

 

Actually, this method popped into my head awhile back when brainstorming to counter this issue. I thought about setting it up this way. Although the BBG tables are static unless using a TARGET boost level correct?

Yeah, that is a better idea. I will have to go back over all the values I have input and see what needs to be changed. Hell it will be difficult to find a happy medium, the altitude and temperature changes from one end of the city to the other, it's ridiculous some nights.

I am still used to setting up AEM EMS's, still trying to figure everything out with Hondata since it's the first setup of my own using it.

I figured since the temperature compensation wasn't working as expected before, when I initially set it up, that I was out of options and may have had to come up with this hack-job bandaid setup to manually control it instead of allowing the S300 to try and compensate.

I am going to start from scratch, but may take several tries to get the target correct. Also changing the values when the weather changes may take some time. I have a feeling that my solenoid is not working correctly aswell, since the duty cycles did not seem to be responding to the temperature compensation values I entered in.

Thanks for all the responses. I was hoping it was just something I was missing with the tables, rather than putting all that MBC crap together.